Film Junk Podcast Episode #378: The Dark Knight Rises
0:00 – Intro
3:45 – Review: The Dark Knight Rises
36:00 – Headlines: Jessica Biel to Play Viper in The Wolverine, Dwayne Johnson Confirms Lobo Casting Rumours, Anthony Mackie in Talks For Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Gary Ross to Direct Peter Pan Prequel, Hellboy 3 Might Happen, The Dark Knight Shooting, Fred Willard Masturbation Scandal, The Master Trailer, The Man of Steel Teaser Trailer
59:30 – Other Stuff We Watched: Harold and Maude, Wanderlust, The Devil’s Double, Brave 3D, Hardware, Lord of War, Silent House, Operation Condor (Armour of God II), Shallow Grave, Cast Away, Death Becomes Her, 127 Hours
1:21:20 – Junk Mail: Dark Knight Shooting, Movies That are Enjoyable Because of the Plot, Kathy Griffin Talks During Magic Mike Screening, Actors Playing Multiple Roles Within a Movie/TV Series, What’s Funnier: Die Hard or Lethal Weapon?, Remakes That Might Have Been Good if the Original Didn’t Exist
1:42:50 – This Week on DVD and Blu-ray
1:44:15 – Outro
1:45:14 – Spoiler Discussion: The Dark Knight Rises
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Comments (67)
The inmates are running the asylum.
Posted by Cringe on July 23rd, 2012Great clip
Posted by Cy-Ed on July 23rd, 2012The League of Shadows are running the prison; hence, the prisoners are mostly good guys because they are the enemies of The League of Shadows.
Posted by antho42 on July 23rd, 2012SPOILERS. Just to help explain Thalia’s “Scooby Doo” moment. Right before her explanation, she does hear Batman say to Bane something like “You’re not the only one to climb out of the pit.”
And Bane replies something like: “I didn’t climb out of the pit, I wasn’t the child.”
And then Thalia tells her story.
So it doesn’t come completely out of nowhere. Though, to Jay’s point, it is a movie explanation. Or – to Greg’s point – it is a quintessential comic book explanation.
Posted by Jericho Slim on July 23rd, 2012Spoilers
Bane was released — he did not escaped.
Posted by antho42 on July 23rd, 2012re: Same series, multiple roles
Bruce Campbell in Spider-Man, biggest example.
Posted by Goon on July 23rd, 2012I’m only about an hour into the show, and I can’t wait to hear the spoiler discussion, but I just wanted to point out that you (literally) weren’t hearing things. The sound IS really screwy in DKR. I have it on 4 screens at my theater, and not only is it hard to hear dialog at times, but it has actually blown a couple of our speakers. In both cases, it was whatever channel Bane’s voice seems to be coming from.
Posted by PlanBFromOuterSpace on July 23rd, 2012I don’t think Sean will appreciate Joseph Gordon Robin taking a piss on commissioner Gordon in TDKR..
Sean will give it a 2.5 or 3. I bet money on that.
Yeah… overall the film had a lot of problems, especially in the script. surely the most comic-bookie out of them all. but I loved it…
I really enjoyed it as part of the trilogy. a. 4/4..
it is the worst criss nolan film to date. but it is still a really good film overall.
I wish he didn’t change the voice of Bane.
best part of the film? …..Catwoman in everything.
worst part? …… Mallorie’s death (the performance)
anyways.. cheers. great show guys..
Posted by kyri on July 23rd, 2012SPOILERS
Jay, you gotta learn to back down sometimes. Nuno and Greg perfectly explained why the scene where Talia reveals everything to Bruce isn’t all that clunky. It’s obvious too that you knew they were speaking sense, yet you still refused to relent on your point. So darn stubborn.
Posted by Tum Tum Tyranus on July 23rd, 2012@Jericho Slim – Exactly.
Posted by Tum Tum Tyranus on July 23rd, 2012Jay, you might be thinking about Mission: Impossible 4 – where they want to start a nuclear war for the good of mankind.
Posted by Jericho Slim on July 23rd, 2012Excellent DKR discussion. I had most of the problems that Jay had (actually a lot more) until I saw the movie a second time.
Posted by Jericho Slim on July 23rd, 2012“Hellboy 3 might happen someday” Hahaha. Great stuff.
Posted by Burgus on July 23rd, 2012Bane was easily understandable, like Frank I would have preferred it to be more muffled and distorted.
Posted by Kasper on July 23rd, 2012#11
I was thinking “Watchmen”.
Posted by James on July 23rd, 2012Great show guys…thanks a lot.
Great show guys but the movie doesn’t need a extended discussion breaking down every single thing in the movie. Come on! what happen to just enjoying something! By the end of the podcast i think you guys convinced yourself you hated the movie. Lol.
Posted by ayindef on July 23rd, 2012Jay, perhaps you were thinking of The Peacemaker?
Posted by bullet3 on July 23rd, 2012I doubt anyone was too concerned about the clarification of there having been an African American Bucky at some point in Captain America but I had to google “Bucky Battlestar” for my own satisfaction:
Posted by Nuno on July 23rd, 2012http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlestar_%28comics%29
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Wow, can’t believe some of you guys didn’t notice the extremely obvious clues in the end that Batman was alive. The fixed batsignal perhaps was a bit vague, but both the missing necklace and the auto pilot patch were very obvious.
Other than that, interesting discussion, although as always I disagree with most of your nitpicks. I loved the whole concrete thing, didn’t find minor things like the reveal of Talia bad, etc.
Posted by Kasper on July 23rd, 2012Awesome J5 clip, however it would be even better if one day you slip in the clip from Albinoman where Sean goes “I have seen the face of evil, and it is terrorism!”
Posted by Goon on July 23rd, 2012*SPOILERS* *SPOILERS* *SPOILERS* *SPOILERS* *SPOILERS* *SPOILERS*
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And guys. guys, guys, guys… He’s not going to be Robin, he’s not going to be Batman – he’s going straight to being Nightwing, obviously. Then at the end of the movie he’ll take on the persona of Batman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightwing_%28Dick_Grayson%29#Nightwing
Posted by Kasper on July 23rd, 2012**SPOILERS**
….Some things that would’ve made TDKR a better film…
-)Remove the “escape from the Lazarus Pit” scene.
ok. DO Have Bane brake Batman’s back ..but if you don’t want to kill him.. then have bane just abandon him . (more normal than taking him to a pit in India if you ask me)
Now that creates a small plothole as well -why didn’t he kill him?- but it is more easy to patch a hole than ..a pit
…
I don’t know.. Have one of Bane’s men ask “are you not going to finish him off?, What if he is still alive?” ..and have Bane say “it’s not about killing, it’s about sending a message” (a crippled batman sends a message) – ///but a different message than the one Joker wanted to send..
…or just have Bane say WHATEVER. … anything to avoid the pit scene.
… Have Catwoman save Bruce and take him to a proper hospital. maybe share a room with commissioner Gordon? Give Anna Hathaway (peach) a character exploration scene instead of introducing those guys in the pit. this would ‘ve justified A LOT BETTER their later-on relationship.
for further exploration..
since you introduced the love triangle thing mr Nolan
why not have a scene in the hospital with Mallorie – Catwoman -Bruce/batman?
why not have bruce actually choose the woman who is going to betray him over the one that actually ‘saves’ him at the end? ….or have Mallorie visit Bruce in the hospital pretending to care… and have…good old tragic -love triangle-scene…
I don’t know.. it just felt that this film was a bit too much all over the place, it didn’t have the clear vision that the other two films had..
…..I liked it over all… but … just some things inside it….
….who gives them food in that pit by the way?… and why they have a telly..?
Posted by kyri on July 23rd, 2012(…..)
The Jackal is back!
Posted by Bob on July 23rd, 2012oh, BY THE WAY…
about the SOUND WAVES
the CONE is created because of the WINGS of the airplane.
a rocket for example DOES NOT CREATE A CONE it creates this effect:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsDEfu8s1Lw
Sorry.. we need to be accurate here.
Posted by kyri on July 23rd, 2012I love how you guys give the film 3.5 and 4 stars, then spend an hour completely tearing the movie from limb to limb.
I mean I don’t think you mentioned one good thing about the film for over an entire hour.
How can a movie be perfect and yet you guys bring up point after great point about all the terrible things within? The movie is entertaining, but the problems you guys brought up are all very legitimate (not all nitpicks).
The movie is FAR from perfect. 4/4 makes no sense to me.
Posted by Andrew James on July 23rd, 2012I can’t speak for the others but for myself, a 4/4 is not indicative of a perfect film. It’s a number that’s intended to quantify my personal enjoyment of a film. There are many movies I love that are full of issues. I’m sure you can pick Star Wars (1977) apart with ease and still defend a 4/4 rating.
This is the problem when recording a podcast (at least from my experience) as it’s much easier — and more fun — to pick something apart rather than simply gush praise upon it.
Posted by Jay C. on July 23rd, 2012Alternately, I’ve heard many episodes of the Cinecast where you guys have gushed over genre films with nothing negative to say about them yet refuse to hand out a 4/4 or 5/5.
This is why applying ratings is annoying.
Posted by Jay C. on July 23rd, 2012there is a lot of bad direction / ideas in the film.
Nolan does a number of scenes three times PARTICULARLY the Harvey Dent Memorial scenes at the beginning WHICH is 8 years after the fact?! And is only there to make note of why all the criminals are off the street.
This film goes back and repeats the problems from Batmen Begins – to much philosophizing and conflicts that are not based on the personal but the societal. How Nolan forgot what worked so well in Dark Knight is mind-numbing.
The choice of covering Bane’s face with the respirator for the entire film is misguided and robs a great actor of a chance to show more range. Why Nolan didn’t do a Darth Vader like helmut off scene, or more dramatic and risky, let Bane only receive gas thru the nostrils! (I DON”T CARE ABOUT COMICS – DIFFERENT MEDIUM)
Nolan is a master at geeky / high concept action but he still has not learned how to direct hand to hand fighting with interesting choreography and camerawork.
Nolan implies 5 month, 12 million siege of Gotham and we get street scenes that wouldn’t make the B roll on ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK. 12 million people and the street are empty, we get fight scene between a couple hundred villains and cops – weak. (nolan no liky CGI) Nolan has displayed a clothes fetish for some time now and here it works against him as Commissioner Gordon and others run around clean streets in pressed Banana Republic!?
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY TOOOOOO LOOOOOOOOOONG the whole Robin stuff has no point, cut it, spare me. Nolan obliviously can not say no to any actor he has ever worked with and finds a place for them in every film (evidence – scarecrow is back)
The Batwing was dumb and heavy, again Nolan’s fetishes do him wrong here. He loves all things practical but hanging that real prop above the street just doesn’t hold up.
So the ending was just a sick practical joke on Alfred?! Real cool Batman
Posted by rus in chicago on July 23rd, 2012for the villain in TDKR: BANE or BRONSON – proof the mask on Hardy was a BAD idea!
Posted by rus in chicago on July 23rd, 2012Hey Rus, why don’t you copy and paste the same thing under every post since you’ve already done it once. Also, how about trying not to sound like such a know-it-all ass in everything you write.
Posted by Jr on July 23rd, 2012Thanks for the episode and discussion and the premium podcast! I saw the movie at midnight and am excited to revisit it. I can’t go 4 stars, Spiderman 2 is still reigning champion in my book.
I didn’t think Talia explaining all that stuff was that out of line, she is proud at getting revenge on Batman and finishing her father’s plan. (I do agree, getting stabbed like he did, I don’t understand why he isn’t bled out and dead a few minutes after. Maybe he had some Batmandages.
@ayindef Don’t listen to the extended discussion if you don’t want to.
Posted by Todd Lynch on July 23rd, 2012Step Up Revolution > The Watch
Posted by Tum Tum Tyranus on July 24th, 2012I love PTA, but come on guys.
Boogie Nights (Scorsese, Pulp Fiction)
Magnolia (Short Cuts, The Player)
Punch-Drunk Love (Louis Malle ect)
There Will Be Blood (John Huston, Stanley Kubrick)
The Master (We can already see shots taken directly from John Huston)
I agree with Fincher and especially Nolan
Posted by James on July 24th, 2012Wait … There’s a new Batman film out?
Posted by MAHONEY on July 24th, 2012Honestly, Catwoman didn’t have to be in this movie. Her presence didn’t service the story or the themes of the film. Think about it, her contribution to the plot was the “clean slate” software, her being the voice of the 99% and the Wayne love story. All three were the weakest parts of the movie, IMO. Most of all, I thought Catwoman’s physicality in a Nolan Batman movie was laughable. I heard I think in another podcast that Jonathan Nolan pressured Christopher Nolan to address Catwoman in his final installment of Batman. Horrible idea.
Take Catwoman out of the storyline and I believe TDKR would be a tighter film. Put more emphasis on the class war theme, make Blake save Batman against Bane proving his worthiness as Batman’s successor and let Wayne be a loner with Alfred at the end.
Posted by Schizopolis on July 24th, 2012I second Nuno on seeing Boy Wonder. Saw it on Netflix streaming a month ago. It was good. The liked soundtrack too. The songs were more used for background music as opposed to theme music driving the scenes.
Posted by Schizopolis on July 24th, 2012Cat woman absolutely had to be in this movie. She’s Bruce’s lady love, you dingo.
Posted by Scott on July 24th, 2012Glad Jay schooled Frank on the cone thing. I had no idea either. I… like it now, too…
Posted by Falsk on July 24th, 2012I remember the Iron Man trailer featuring the “Sonic Cone” or whatever quite prominently.
Posted by James on July 24th, 2012I thoroughly enjoyed this cast, btw. Nuno is/was a good addition and fill in for Mr Dwyer.
Very interesting episode. I loved the conversation about the “original” voices in American cinema. Fincher and Anderson (P.T.) are definitely original. Although I see a lot of seventies film making in Fincher’s work (Pakula’s conspiracy trilogy and Chinatown). That being said, I think Soderbergh could be included in that group as well. As a director he reveres the past and yet his films feel very fresh (to me anyway). The Limey and Haywire (minor works I’ll admit) are very stylish and original works.
Posted by Cody Lang on July 24th, 2012Totally agree with Andrew. Yet again another review full of criticism then a 4/4 almost across the board. This only seems to happen with the movies people expect to excel or are produced by those with solid reputations.
Posted by gibson8 on July 24th, 2012SPOILER:
I also feel that Nolan intended for Officer/Detective Blake to be a replacement for Batman, yet by naming him Robin, he is able to side-step having a costumed hero named Robin. If he wanted to set him up to become “Robin” he could have had the reveal name be Dick Grayson. By revealing his actual name as Robin, he gives a nod to the comic character while letting you know instantly that he’s meant for something more, yet it eliminates the possibility of him becoming a costumed hero named Robin, which just doesn’t fit very well in Nolan’s universe.
So, he is “Robin,” but he isn’t, and he’s also Batman’s successor and possibly could even be trained by Bruce Wayne. The big question is whether we’ll see this actually happen in a new Batman movie.
Posted by Brendan on July 24th, 2012Jay,
We do not hand out ratings on the Cinecast. Stop lying, you lying liar.
Posted by Matt Gamble on July 24th, 2012I liked the way Bane was taken out. He was awesome and did a LOT of cool stuff in the movie. When I left, his voice was overwhelming my brain. I was just giddy with Banisms. However, he’s evil, and evil is banal. So, he should have a banal ending. He ended so many people’s lives so suddenly that that is the way he would go. You die like you live. I really love this movie. Only thing that would make it better is if, instead of John Blake, it was Cassandra Cain helping Batman like she did in the awesome NO MAN’S LAND comics. She is by far my favorite Batman character. Also, did anyone else notice that the businessman Dagget was from the cartoon series? He was the corrupt businessman who created Clayface! I noticed right away, but sorta thought he was going to turn into Clayface. That would have been awesome! I vote Clayface, Manbat, and Batgirl for the next movie!
Cheers!
Scott
Posted by scott on July 24th, 2012@BarbarianComic
I know Jay and others have misgivings about rating films, especially after having a discussion on the podcast, a discussion which does tend to focus on critique more than praise. But I prefer having a rating along with the discussion. If people can’t comprehend how a free flowing discussion among friends won’t line up exactly with a star rating then that is their problem. I think it adds an interesting element that other podcasts lack. Some of my favorite moments are when Jay is ho-hum on a film and then gives it a 3. Classic. Or when Frank panics over his rating consistency by considering past ratings and making sure he doesn’t rate something too high or low in comparison (because you never know if it’ll make it on the year end’s top 10 list where the numbers dictate everything for Frank!)
Posted by Bob on July 24th, 2012I hate these comments. I’ll give them a 4 out of 4.
Posted by Greg on July 24th, 2012spoilers
Bruce knows Bane was trained by the League of Shadows
Posted by Lucas3D on July 25th, 2012He knows Ra’s Al Ghul lost his love at some point
He is told the story of the Mercenary, his affair/child.
The pieces come together and he has a ‘eureka’ moment waking from his sleep. He is a genius detective after all.
***SPOILERS***
Whenever they get around to the next Batman film, or if by some minor miracle JLA materializes first, are we going to find out at the beginning that Blake decided 5 minutes after the end of DKR that he didn’t want to follow in Bruce’s footsteps and has just been sitting on his ass for 8 years?
“Dark Knight Rises” had to have one of the most anti-climactic BEGINNINGS for a sequel ever. Oh, Batman just STOPPED after “Dark Knight”? No new adventures? No new enemies popped up in the meantime? No blanks to fill in? Weak…
Posted by PlanBFromOuterSpace on July 25th, 2012Greg, 4 out of 4? OK. But is that a light, solid, or heavy 4?
Posted by Bob on July 25th, 2012Q: What was the big deal about needing Bruce Wayne’s fingerprints? Nothing seemed to come of it in the end.
Posted by ButtonMan88 on July 25th, 2012Any ideas?
ButtonMan88
The fingerprints were for the stock market heist so that they could make purchases with Bruce’s fingerprint authorization. I’ve noticed that there are many things, not only in the Batman films but in most of Nolan’s films that are shown like this. Plot points that are not addressed directly but shown in very brief moments. So the explanation is usually there, just easy to miss.
Posted by Jr on July 25th, 2012Bob: Light. Very light.
Posted by Greg on July 25th, 2012I love it when Andrew James and the hipster cast make comments about the quality of the show.
Posted by Justin on July 25th, 2012Anyone else think that the above pic of Batman looks like Jay under the cowl. They have the same shaped head.
Posted by Greg on July 25th, 2012Man o man.. Alfred totally missed out on Bruce banging Talia.. He’s been striving for 2,5 movies and then he’s not there when it happens..
Posted by patrik on July 25th, 2012Batman & Jay do look fairly much alike.. yet still neither Superman nor Ironman could physically create a Sonic Cone.
Posted by kyri on July 25th, 2012Jay, was the movie you were trying to think of in the Spoiler section Ghost Protocol?
Posted by James Bond on July 25th, 2012Absolutely loved the movie. Best I’ve seen in at least 1,5 years. It has flaws, sure, but also some of the most memorable and balls out landmark sequences in a movie of this budget. The siege scenes, kangaroo courts, the abyss/climbing scene, the kid singing before Bane is blowing shit to hell, ect. And you really feel for the characters. The build up to the comeback and is 100% earned and the title “Rises” makes sense. You see all the men of Gotham rise as well. And I loved that we FEEL Bruces bravery in that he has no problem going against Bane in a fistfight nr.2. He just does it. That is bravery from the bones without spelling it out to me.
I also thought the ending was extremely satisfying.
I can’t understand why Jay loves escape from new york and not this. Rises blows it out of the water
Posted by James on July 26th, 2012Please don’t let Jay review any more films with a decent plot. This wasn’t the first time that we discover, only after a heated discussion, that he had missed an essential plot point. (The timing of Talia’s explanation, the repair of the autopilot, …) Just let him be the loveable grouch with the monotone voice.
Posted by Franck Lloyd on July 26th, 2012WOW. Nuno’s thoughts on what the ending Gould have been were the exact same things I was thinking when I saw it. Down to the frame I thought it should have ended at. Knowing Smile and then cut to black and then the end.
Posted by theocean85 on July 26th, 2012Think I’ll wait for this one to come out on Blu. I find Batman a bit gay.
Posted by JohnnyBlazed on July 26th, 2012Surprised at how much I liked this. Although, as with most Nolan films, when watching I’m completely engaged, but after the experience feels empty for some reason. Nolan’s films are good looking snacks? Fine.
Posted by DavidM on July 27th, 2012@theocean85
I agree with that. It would have been awesome. Of course, if he had done that, the entire internet community would be complaining that he ripped of the ending of his last movie.
@JohnnyBlazed
Posted by Jr on July 27th, 2012Batman finds Ghost Rider a bit gay.
Regarding Greg’s comments on the audio, this is from the New Yorker review:
“But the over-all sound balance in “The Dark Knight Rises” is so screwy that everyone’s dialogue, not just Bane’s, is forever being swallowed by ambient noise, and I began to wonder if we were even meant to follow the labyrinth of the plot.”
Posted by Other Greg on July 28th, 2012The ending had me thinking about the last few panels of The Dark Knight Returns, whose influence is most prominent in this last film. Even the idea of Batman expecting to die, fantasizing about the best way to go, but then finally realizing that life is worth it. At the end of that series the “Batman” was thought dead as well, with Bruce Wayne continuing his work with a new generation of young heroes. Kudos to Nolan for getting as close as possible to bringing that particular Batman storyline to film, and for that, I loved it.
Posted by Mrespony on July 29th, 2012oops, incomplete thought there. What I meant was “Even the idea of Batman expecting to die, fantasizing about the best way to go, but then finally realizing that life is worth it, a theme that runs through TKDReturns is present, although characterized differently in TKDRises.
Posted by Mrespony on July 30th, 2012***SPOILERS***
i think there’s a symmetry there with bane and batman killed & stabbed respectively by a lady. marion seemed plucked out of a giallo film, for some reason it remined me of those.
-
btw, that movie Jay was trying to remember, right at the end, it might be The Peacemaker.
most excellent podcast, i must say. just got around hearing it, great stuff. thank you!
Posted by mrhorse on December 6th, 2012Leave a Reply