Open Forum Friday: Are the Red Letter Media Videos Insightful or Just Spiteful?
If you have the internet and you happen to visit movie blogs on a regular basis then there’s a pretty good chance that by now you’ve seen Red Letter Media’s 70-minute take down of Star Wars: Episode I – The Phantom Menace. The video dissected the myriad of problems with the film and it quickly went viral, helping many fans verbalize their disappointment with George Lucas. The same guys went on to produce video critiques of several other movies including Avatar, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, and most recently, Prometheus. It’s clear that a lot of work goes into these videos and they have some interesting things to say, but are they really as brilliant as a lot of people seem to think?
It’s worth noting that their Prometheus video is a lot shorter and is obviously intended primarily for laughs, but I’ve noticed a lot of people referring to it as a “review” of the film, which it most definitely is not. It is essentially one guy rattling off four minutes of questions that the movie fails to answer — some of which are valid complaints (in my opinion), but many of which are ridiculous nitpicks. I can’t help but feel that the popularity of videos like this are changing the way people evaluate films; that is to say, a few plot loopholes are enough to write off an entire movie. What do you think? Are the Red Letter Media videos solid examples of film criticism or are they nothing more than hyperbolic fan rants? Do people take these videos at face value without stopping to think for themselves? Does their take on Prometheus prove that it’s actually a bad movie? Give us your thoughts here on Open Forum Friday.
Comments (40)
This forum is a bit conflicting. The long, 70-minute Star Wars review, along with Avatar and Indiana Jones, are not meant to be legitimate, full-on reviews. They are more or less a sarcastic way of voicing complaints. On the other hand, Red Letter Media’s actual review show, Half In The Bag, is more serious, well not totally serious, Half In The Bag certainly pokes fun at bad movies, but it is a legitimate review. I guess people take the long reviews a little too seriously.
Posted by Jeff Reining on June 15th, 2012It should be said that those guys liked the film.
They reviewed it on their review show Half in the Bag – http://www.redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag/
There’s definitely an element of satire in what they do. Just in that video you posted – it works both ways. They make some valid complaints but you can also view it as them poking fun at nitpickers and how people overanalyze everything on the internet these days.
Posted by Kent on June 15th, 2012That Prometheus video is a 4 minute cut (trailer) for their full length “Half in the Bag” review which is about 24 minutes long and full of lots of great insights and a level headed perspective.
http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag-prometheus/
So no, they’re not spiteful. Maybe they just need to do a better job at pointing people towards their full reviews.
Posted by Jay C. on June 15th, 2012Kinda funny for when I’m bored.
Posted by scott on June 15th, 2012Red Letter Media are both insightful and (often) hilarious, and they have a legitimate love of film… They also have very real concerns with the state of the film industry, just watch their Jack and Jill episode.
Posted by Colin on June 15th, 2012I agree with what everyone else has to say, they do good reviews and they obviously nitpick a bit but I think it is all in good fun and for laughs.
Posted by Tomoo on June 15th, 2012you better not make fun of them unless you don’t mr plinkett to send you a pizza roll.
Posted by adam on June 15th, 2012and Jeff Reining hit the nail on the head.
Posted by adam on June 15th, 2012i’ve never even heard of them before now, but at 70 minutes!?! I won’t bother.
Posted by Deven Science on June 15th, 2012“i’ve never even heard of them before now, but at 70 minutes!?! I won’t bother.” – Deven Science
Mr. Science,
Please reboot your computer. When you boot back up, and are able to see your desktop, take a moment to meditate on the cleansing nature of the second chance. Think about rebirth, think about redemption. This is your new start. You see, up until just now, you’ve been using the internet incorrectly.
Posted by Ovenball on June 15th, 2012I just think the RLM Star Wars prequel vids are fucking hilarious and I find myself nodding emphatically at various points throughout all three of them.
But then I’m not a real big fan of what Lucas has done since 1983, so my opinion might be a bit biased. And by a bit I mean a lot.
Posted by milath on June 15th, 2012I was expecting to have to defend RLM, but judging by the comments here, I’m on the same page as a lot of other people. Their long ‘reviews’ of Phantom Menace etc are both enjoyable and insightful. But I would add that I don’t just take them at face value and accept everything they say as gospel…there’s been a few critisisms that they’ve made that I didn’t think were necessarily valid, but overall there’s a lot of value in what they do.
I remember a while back a star wars fan boy wrote a long essay attacking RLM. I got about two pages in, but had to give up as it was written by a humourless pedantic moron (IMHO). For instance, RLM point out that Anakin is the main character of PM and you don’t meet him until 40 minutes into the film, and this fanboy attacked them, saying that Anakin actually appears after 30 minutes or whatever. Er, hello…does that make their point invalid!!??
Posted by Liney on June 16th, 2012Yes Sean, that is often my problem with Jay and Frank’s reviews at Film Junk – too much nitpicking of plot holes.
Films have their own internal logic that doesn’t have to be realistic – you can make visual connections with a cut. It’s like criticizing dreams for not being more life-like or life for not being like a movie.
Posted by drexlw on June 16th, 2012I’ve seen their Star Wars episode 1 review, which is undeniably a good piece of film criticism. Something like the 4-minute Prometheus piece, while pretty damn funny, doesn’t really legitimize them as critics, though. It just makes them seem like they’re missing the point, and gives legitimacy to those who can’t get past the literal plot. As Jay said their longer review is quite different, but it’s a bit odd that they should release both videos.
Posted by csidle on June 16th, 2012Just funny. Very funny. Thats all i read into them.
Posted by Spooksta on June 16th, 2012Never seen any of their videos and haven’t had much interest in them. Didn’t know they were this popular, I’m a little surprised.
Posted by Kasper on June 16th, 2012I’ve also heard of them but never seen them. I just keep hearing about the Episode I review, and that just isn’t a hook for me. It’s the deadest horse there is.
Posted by PlanBFromOuterSpace on June 16th, 2012That Prometheus quick review was very funny. All the little nit-pick questions I asked myself were in there plus a few more. I’m assuming they probably liked the movie and are just giving shit to those that didn’t, or those that couldn’t stop harping on the little holes in the story. I really like the long reviews that they have done as the murderous, pizza roll eating guy. I think overall they like movies but have a lot more fun making fun of them…which is fun to watch. Wow, so much “fun”.
Posted by Courtney on June 16th, 2012These guys are great, and their Star Wars prequels feature-length video reviews are nothing short than brilliant.
Posted by Lior on June 16th, 2012I love Half in the Bag. Their feature long reviews are amazing too.
Posted by tjg92 on June 16th, 2012It’s also worth mentioning they did “Mr. Plinkett” reviews for the entire Star Trek: The Next Generation film series way before Half In The Bag even started, and they are all amazing. Their knowledge of Star Trek left me in awe. I wouldn’t even call the Mr. Plinkett stuff “reviews” (which is what “Half in the Bag” is). They’re more like extremely well made, funny yet genuine, deconstructions of a film. Their video for First Contact was so good is made me question the merits of my favorite TNG film. I still like it quite a bit, but their comments made so much sense – especially the comparison to the characters as they are in the TV show and how inconsistent it all is. Check it out if you haven’t yet.
Posted by Lior on June 17th, 2012I feel like there is a place for the kind of close analysis work they do, but I do wish they’d
A. put the same kind of effort into showing how solid a good movie is.
and
B. choose more interesting targets than movies like The Phantom Menace, which the internet had already taken the better part of a decade lobbing hate on in the first place.
Overall I’ve seen then make some good points and some not-so-good points, maybe I’d like them more if they had a second voice in their videos acting as a devil’s advocate of sorts and challenging some of their points. Then it would seem more like a genuine inquiry and less like a hit piece.
Posted by MJS on June 17th, 2012Spiteful. But still very funny. That 4-minute video is funny not because of the questions, but because of its presentation. I see it more as a comedy piece than a film critique. To do this, these guys must see the movie not to have fun, but to pull apart every scene in the script to nit-pick it. That must be exhausting.
Posted by Steve on June 17th, 2012First off, Sean, you seem to confuse the “Mr. Plinkett” stuff on RLM with their “Half in the Bag” feature. Secondly you seem to confuse their Spoiler-Segment with a film review (which, here I agree with you – and probably would the RLM guys -, is not actually a review). You yourself were rather focussed on plot points in PROMETHEUS so I don’t really understand what you’re getting at. RLM is not only quite funny but also very insightful, yes. Maybe you should watch more of their stuff before you post prejudices against them.
Posted by Rudi on June 17th, 2012As several people have already pointed out, I didn’t realize they had different kinds of videos. I had only seen the Star Wars videos and this Prometheus one. Their website is pretty terrible and does not make this very clear.
Still, I’m not the only one who is confused, and this is part of the problem. I’ve seen a lot of people linking to the Prometheus video as if it is a review, stating that it perfectly summarizes their opinion on the movie.
Posted by Sean on June 17th, 2012who’s fucking with my medicine.
Posted by adam on June 17th, 2012I find them very funny, but at the same time indicative of a lot of things wrong with nerd culture at the same time: Bullying consensus through selective nitpicking. In this case they play both sides. The 4 minute video is a Prometheus haters wet dream, but the extended review praises the film and pretty much calls all the hardcore haters overreactionary babies with no lives.
Posted by Goon on June 17th, 2012The RLM video is hilarious, a sort of self-hating nerd diatribe that acknowledges the shortcomings of their obsessions. Take that bullies, “I know more about why this shit is stupid than you do, dumb ass jock!”
Posted by Mrespony on June 18th, 2012@MJS Why we needed the Phantom Menace “Review” was not because it got the word out that the movie was terrible and nonsensical… everyone who saw the movie already knew that… we needed it because it explained and itemized exactly *why* (and in what ways) the movie was terrible and how it failed so spectacularly.
As they point out several times, you may not have noticed… but your brain did. This is the perfect metaphor for the Phantom Menace viewing experience in which you know that the movie is bad, but you’re not sure why… and the Prometheus video (the four-minute cut) provides a similar deconstruction of the movie, in sort of an outline approach; one would assume that Mike came up with a similar, albeit longer, set of questions and doubts before constructing the Phantom Menace piece.
Posted by Colin on June 18th, 2012@Colin: How is the 4-minute Prometheus video a deconstruction? It does nothing but ask questions of a bunch of plot points that range from trivial to a few bigger ones. It seems like you’re completely missing the point if you think the 4-minute video and the 90-minute review are in any way comparable. The reviews are lengthy and intelligent looks at the flaws of the films, while the 4-minute Prometheus video is playing on the ridiculous literalistic approach that a lot of nerds have taken to Prometheus. They’re not sincere in the 4-minute video; they’re sincere in their reviews.
Posted by csidle on June 18th, 2012@csidle Perhaps I was not clear… the 4-minute, slew of questions compiled in the Prometheus video, is probably similar to the impetus (or whatever you want to call it) that caused Mike to do the extensive Phantom Menace video (and the Star Trek and subsequent Star Wars videos)
Basically what I was getting at is that I’m sure at one point, Mike simply had a bunch of questions (ala those found in the Prometheus video) for each of these movies, which created a skeleton or outline for what he built his desconstructive analysis upon… I was not implying that a 4-minute video is the deconstruction proper, just the kernel that would lead to such a thing.
While the video may not be, as you put it, “sincere,” it is however an insight into how Mike does map out his points… it’s almost like brainstorming. And while many of the questions are jokes, there are also questions that are legitimate, so you can see how they temper the (possibly) dry analysis with humor to reach an enjoyable mix of insight and entertainment.
Posted by Colin on June 18th, 2012RedLetterMedia is great, they have Half In The Bag (semi regular movie review show, that is partially scripted), but RLM started their internet sucsess with Plinket reviews.
Posted by Oskars on June 19th, 2012I think they are both insightful and sarcastic both about the movies, publick opinion, and their own too.
For all of you who think RLM’s TPM “review” was in fact a review should read Jim Raynor’s rebuttal.
Posted by FLM on June 24th, 2012He tears their illogical, out of context “points” apart.
But you have to read.
@FLM
Dead on. Raynor makes it clear that Plinkett (aka Mike) clearly has no idea what he’s talking about by torturing the film’s battered logic, shoe-horning in EU content, and commenting on Lucas’ intent rather than his actions.
Raynor nails it on the head with his over-long, sweat-stained, mouth-breathing, Cheeto and Mountain Dew fueled rant which both completely misses the point and simultaneously takes the leaps in logic he accuses the RLM guys of.
Raynor’s paean to The Phantom Menace reads like a semi-literate and cinematically-ignorant tirade inspired by Shakespeare’s Mark Antony speech, intended to “bury Lucas, not to praise him,” as he points out repeatedly, protesting too much that he is no fan of the prequels.
Right on, dude. You drank the Lucasfilm Kool-Aid, too, didn’t you?
Posted by Jim Raynor is God on July 11th, 2012@FLM
Funny that you brought up Jim Raynor’s rebuttal, because if anything could be considered spiteful and illogical, it’s a 10,000+ word thesis critiquing a critique of a terrible movie headed by an even worse director.
There’s a reason the RLM Star Wars reviews are pushing over 5 Million hits, and it’s not because “LOL MURDER HUMOR”, it’s because someone finally put into words what everybody was thinking. And not only is it humorous, it’s probably one of the most brilliant 70-minute pieces of Film School 101 you’ll ever bear witness to.
Posted by LolU on August 28th, 2012Personally I found the RLM reviews to be shody, dishonest reviewing and that Raynor did a great job pointing out how bad the RLM reviews really are. Raynor showcases how RLM misrepresents almost the whole film, slanders Lucas with BS that RLM made up and even admits it, invents problems that don’t even exist, and then uses “we” to influence viewers. What I really dislike about the RLM reviews is how Stoklasa pushes his own and bizarre dogma of filmmaking that really insults our intelligence. There are also many other rebuttals pointing out what a dishonest and crappy reviewer RLM is, if he is so good why doesn’t he bullet his review like a expert would? Too many people are drinking RLM’s kool aid and worshipping this POS of a reviewer that is RLM.
Posted by slicer87 on September 27th, 2012slicer87 out of all the nonsense i read about the tpm movie or rlm review yours is the by far the most idiotic one.
bullet the review? bizarre dogma of filmmaking? “we” to influence the viewers?
my goodness. your comment reveals only one thing: the sheer depth of your stupidity. i honestly feel sorry for you and this is not sarcasm. one the other hand it did make me laugh out loud.
Posted by Usol on December 16th, 2012“a few plot loopholes are enough to write off an entire movie. What do you think?”
Posted by anonymustafar on May 13th, 2013What I think? I think you haven’t done any research for your “article”.
They actually reviewed Prometheus on their website! The viral video you brought up that went viral, was a FOLLOW-UP of that review. The early TNG reviews aside (which WERE basically humorous fan rants), they hardly have anything resembling a “if there’s holes in there it sucks” policy going on – which is evident from watching any of the Plinkett or HitB reviews.
“but it’s a bit odd that they should release both videos.”
Huh? They post a review video where they discuss the movie for 20 minutes; it includes a 10 second sketch with them asking each other questions about the plot with baked face expressions; then they release a follow-up video with a 3 minute version of that sketch. You know… a deleted scene of sorts. Which part of that strikes you as “odd” again?
“Never seen any of their videos and haven’t had much interest in them. Didn’t know they were this popular, I’m a little surprised.”
Posted by anonymustafar on May 13th, 2013Yes you’ve heard of them
*Yet*
Posted by anonymustafar on May 13th, 2013Leave a Reply