Film Junk Podcast Episode #350: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo
0:00 – Intro / Film Junk Reader’s Choice Award Winners
21:15 – Review: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo
55:40 – Trailer Trash: The Dark Knight Rises, Prometheus, The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey
1:25:15 – Other Stuff We Watched: Rise of the Planet of the Apes, The Rocketeer, Bombay Beach, Shut Up Little Man! An Audio Misadventure, Scrooged, Saturday Night Live, Buck, Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy
1:47:10 – Junk Mail: Foreign Directors and their Opinion on Foreign Films, Hipsters
2:01:40 – This Week’s DVD Releases
2:07:30 – Outro
2:09:45 – Spoiler Discussion: The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo
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Comments (55)
Wow, podcast overload this week. Thanks a lot and a Merry X-Mas!
Posted by Vikke_AJ on December 24th, 2011Merry Christmas guys. This is going to make today’s long trip to the In-laws house a lot more fun than it should be. Thanks
Posted by Brittany on December 24th, 2011Two episodes and a boner episode in one week! Can’t thank you enough. Merry Christmas to Film Junk and all the fans. I’m grateful every year for the podcast and for all of those who contribute and listen. Thanks for all the many hours of entertainment & movie wisdom each year!
Posted by Jim Laczkowski on December 24th, 2011Regarding Jays comments on the craft of the US remake surpassing that of the danish original: Don’t forget that the budget of the remake is about 100 times bigger than the original, which helps quite a bit with the ‘craft’, and everything technical really. I haven’t seen either movie, but it’s at least worth mentioning when making a point like that.
Posted by Henrik on December 24th, 2011Oh, and merry christmas! xD
Posted by Henrik on December 24th, 2011where is the link to that bonus Reed Podcast?
Posted by kyri on December 24th, 2011The “Reed special” is included with the JP podcast.
Posted by Sean on December 24th, 2011Man, Beauty Day wasn’t even a *nominee* in the best doc of 2011 award?
That really seems like quite a large amount of disrespect for your fellow caster/documentary filmmaker…
Frankly, I call shenanigans! Who got paid off?!? Greg? It was Greg, right? He’s never liked Jay! You can just tell!
Srsly tho, epic podcasting week guys! So much content to listen to. Thanks!
Posted by milath on December 24th, 2011oh yeahh… How on earth did I miss that? SWeeeet.
Posted by kyri on December 24th, 2011Thanks Film Junk crew for all the content this week. Amazing. Merry Christmas!
Posted by Spongebob Scaredpants on December 24th, 2011WTF? Boner. You guys are on the ‘Good Boy’ list this year.
Posted by Father Christmas on December 24th, 2011I was wondering… Is the news segment gone for good? Or is there just not much new news around the holidays. I was just wondering because I do enjoy hearing the hosts thoughts on news stories.
Posted by Matt on December 24th, 2011Regarding the inverse pyramidal space full of stairs in the Dark Knight Rises trailer; it’s a gloomed up, cleaned up and guard-railed version of the stepwalls in India (most likely Chand Baori). The Chand Baori was used as a set piece in The Fall.
Posted by alechs on December 24th, 2011The news isn’t gone for good but we’ll probably be more picky since I’m the only one who usually enjoys talking about that stuff. If there are specific things you want us to comment on you can always send it as a junk mail.
Posted by Sean on December 24th, 2011You guys make me wet. Merry Christmas, thanks for all the hot podcast action
Posted by Tess Steckle on December 24th, 2011Good less news and more Jay talking about recently watched documentaries in monotone. Zzzzzzzzzzzz
Posted by Chris on December 24th, 2011episode 350!
Posted by rjdelight on December 24th, 2011The news is a great segment and usually leads to interesting discussion even if others don’t want to talk about it. Never abolish this veteran segment!
Posted by rjdelight on December 24th, 2011Film Junk is the gift that keeps on giving! Great show, guys.
Posted by Aaron on December 24th, 2011The news has officially been replaced by an exciting new segment called “City Traffic” during which our four heroes complain about area traffic and other delays.
“Even I think this traffic is bullcrap, and I barely have a driver’s license!” – Jay Cheel
“After fighting traffic for hours I finally got to the theatre. When I got back, I realized I had watched the wrong movie!” – Greg
Posted by Ovenball on December 24th, 2011Wow Merry Christmas indeed.
Posted by indianamcclain on December 25th, 2011Frank, the thematic values of dark knight is about escalation, duality, corruption, terrorism and class difference. The corruption element is very much a driving force of the plot in both films. The political ideology of Harvey Dent as character that is bigger then the person himself, the white knight – and how citizens of Gotham is looking at him as their savior is very interesting when you look at how americans looked at Barack Obama a few years back.. Nolan really hit that zeitgeist without pulling it out of the subtext of the film, it’s just in the story.
And looking for things that is realistic in a Batman movie is utterly ridiculous. These movies are not aiming for authentic realism, and its a big difference between grounding a film in reality, so we can relate to what’s going on, and being realistic. It’s a heightened reality.
And the Ridley Scott thing.. That was my comment you referred to, and i’ve seen all of his films, even many of his commercials – and there is no doubt (I think this is for the most part universally agreed on) that Mr. Scott is very very uneven. Let me put it this way, I even think Gladiator, his most praised movie in recent years (and its over a decade old) is nothing more than fine, so that leaves him with the DC cut kingdom of heaven and nothing else that is superb in over 25 years.
Posted by James on December 25th, 2011Just re-watch the film Frank.
Batman is G.B.Jr
Joker is THE TERRORIST THREAT
Harvey is OBAMA/OSAMA.
it’s quite obvious if you ask me.
And it is worth saying that J.C was the first person to point towards those allegories.
Posted by kyri on December 25th, 2011I hope the post above me is kidding.
Posted by Goon on December 25th, 2011If by J.C. you’re referring to me…I was actually arguing against these allegories.
Posted by Jay C. on December 25th, 2011Q: Some claimed The Dark Knight was a commentary on the George W Bush years in American politics and having a CIA agent take hooded prisoners onto a plane could be seen as a continuation of that. However, Nolan says modern culture only influences the Batman films on an unconscious level.
A: “We try not to sit down and write commentary on the world we live in but we do try and write from an honest place and in doing that you do naturally write about the world we live in. But I think you’ve got to do that unconsciously. These films are not meant to be providing specific social commentary, I think that would be alienating and I think it would take the fun out of it,” Nolan said.
Don’t know if this settles anything though.
Jonathan Nolan also talks about this at 08:33 in this interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYB88tRbnpY&
So while it would be easy to look at this DKR trailer and say “This is clearly Nolan commenting on the financial crisis”. Nolan is first and foremost a storyteller and just wants to create great drama – and certainly class conflict is a good subject when our protagonist just happens to be the richest man on the planet.
BTW, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the line “The fire rises” (that Bane said in the prologue) also happens to be a chapter title in Dickens’ A TALE OF TWO CITIES which, incidentally, is (partly) about class conflicts. Maybe that’s one of Nolan’s inspirations for this film?
Posted by Kent on December 25th, 2011I think it’s pretty clear kyri is refering to Jesus Christ.
Posted by Ovenball on December 25th, 2011And clearly catwoman is Newt Gingrich..
Posted by Kyri on December 25th, 2011Compare the hospital blowing up in the dark knight to the football field scene in the trailer. The hospital scene is very impressive but still grounded in reality.
The football scene is cool but way over the top. It looked like something from the G.I. Joe movie to me.
Posted by Matt on December 25th, 2011I’d argue the wide shot of the hospital blowing up featured equally bad CG.
Posted by Jay C. on December 26th, 2011The film wrapped a few weeks ago, I’m sure the VFX aren’t done yet. I loved the football field scene, because it’s very original and actually thematically interesting if you look at Bane as a terrorist. Blowing up sportsfields has been among the most feared scenarios in europe in the noughties and al qaeda has tried several times. Talk about sending a message.
Posted by James on December 26th, 2011The hospital blowing up in TDK didn’t have any CG. They blew up a real building.
Posted by Kent on December 26th, 2011Yeah, you’re right. I think I’m remembering a wrong movie. I seem to recall a wide shot from a helicopter playing on a news program in the movie (on a TV set), but it must be something else.
Either way, the choice of CG in The Dark Knight Rises comes down to practicality. Obviously Nolan can’t implode a real football stadium full of players and people. You could say he should’ve just dropped the concept, but within the world of Batman I think you’re going to come up against some ideas that might require CG.
Posted by Jay C. on December 26th, 2011CG or models or whatever, but does he really have to have a guy running from a crumbling earth the same way we’ve seen in action movies over and over again these past few years (obviously taken to the extreme in 2012, by visionary x10 director Roland Emmerich)?
Posted by Henrik on December 26th, 2011If you have two cg scenes of the same quality And the one scene describes something normal like snow or fog and the other shows something out of this world. It is highly possible for the average movie goer to 100% believe the first scene and challenge the second one as fake, even though the cg is of equal quality. To me all cg always looks fake. period. I wish Nolan didn’t use cg at all. I am really surprised by that scene as well. Not that it is not technically well made. That scene is as good as it can get. But the topic that it describes cannot be described by cg. He should have done it otherwise. Either way, that football scene is not able to take away one bit from the film. If the film tells a good story then who gives a @^!@ about some bad special effects here and there.
Taxi Driver had bad special fx.
Terminator 1-2 had bad special fx.
The sonar scene in the Previous Batman film is BAD in terms of special FX.
Yet all those films are awesome.
Posted by kyri on December 26th, 2011Since you guys were contemplating someone being shocked by Dragon Tattoo if they didn’t know the story so I thought I would share a story. The rape scene in the bedroom made the girl I was seeing the movie with cry, it was awkward.
Posted by Tomoo on December 26th, 2011#36 You getting a boner from it while she’s breaking down in tears can have that effect. Trust me.
Posted by Kasper on December 26th, 2011Fuck I just listened to the podcast and Frank makes the exact same point I did here about the Batman stuff… FUUUUUCK, but this is why I love Frank
Posted by Henrik on December 26th, 2011#37 I know,,
Posted by kyri on December 26th, 2011I see the football field imploding as purely a mature filmmaker knowingly bowing to the studio and commerce and realizing he has to have an over the top set piece to help market the third, and final, film in an outstanding series. I feel the majority of the film will be rich with baroque shots like the prison scene, with all its bright orange jumpsuits and zigzag stairs, and the homage scenes like cat woman in big hat and shades. Nolan is a seasoned professional that is above clinching his fists and fighting the studio on a big marketing scene. He knows he can do both (remember he started in advertising)
Sean, you amaze me with your missed opportunities to educate your friends. I live in Chicago traffic, and what you failed to enlighten your friends about with public transit IS YOU CAN ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING ELSE WHILE RIDING IT! Read, work on a script, watch a freakin movie. I really didn’t realize you guys were so country. LOL
Posted by rus in chicago on December 28th, 2011#4
I´m not sure if you´re talking about Dragon Tattoo, but if you are, the original is not a danish movie. In any way really.
Posted by patrik on December 28th, 2011Oh btw, I like the news segment. Stay strong Sean.
Posted by patrik on December 28th, 2011I’m all for news as long as the topics are worthwhile. In my opinion, 75% of the time they’re not. I’d rather not chime in than have Sean ask what we think and respond with “I don’t care”.
Posted by Jay C. on December 28th, 2011Jay C: Your boy Werner Herzog talked about Dark Knight: “In a way, I was totally astonished by The Dark Knight because, on the one hand, it’s a huge, mainstream movie. But it also astonished me at how dark it was, as though it was a premonition of something coming at us. I went to see the film, and ran into Christian Bale, which was the only reason I saw the film: I wanted to see how Christian was doing, because I so love that man, as an actor. I ran into Christian and (director) Christopher Nolan, and said to Nolan ‘Congratulations, this is the most significant film of the whole year.’ He thought I was kind of making it up, or joking. And I said ‘No, no, no! This is a film of real substance. It doesn’t matter if it’s mainstream or not.’ And it’s wonderful that he made the film the way he did.”
Your boy Paul Greengrass: “The Dark Knight, for instance, is a hugely successful film, and it’s also one of the best films of the last 10 years. Its themes and its darkness and its creative ambitions are absolutely huge, but of course it’s a gigantic and popular Batman movie.”
I could post more of these, but since the directors of United 93 and Grizzly Man approves on the fact that TDK has a lot of substance, I know will come around.
Turnaround, every now and then I get a little bit lonely and you’re never coming around. Turnaround, Every now and then I get a little bit tired of listening to the …
Posted by James on December 28th, 2011/\/\/\/\/\/\ TDK is one of the tightest scripts in the last ten years, period. It does what it promises with little fluff. Its the greatest example of pure entertainment with over arching mean. I’ll say it again, Batman will die in this next film.
Posted by rus in chicago on December 29th, 2011James: Those are interesting quotes. I’m just not sure what you meant by:
“I could post more of these, but since the directors of United 93 and Grizzly Man approves on the fact that TDK has a lot of substance, I know will come around.”
Is there a “you” missing in there? “I know YOU will come around.”? If so, what are you referring to? I’m a huge fan of The Dark Knight.
Either way, thanks for posting those quotes.
Posted by Jay C. on December 29th, 2011Oh, I felt you guys didn’t give the film the respect it deserves. In the podcast you guys (or at least Frank) kind of dismisses the subtext of the film. I just wanted to remind you guys that absolutly no other film has come even close to portray the 9/11 world in such a entertaining fashion, without hitting you in the head with it. It’s there, but you have to do the work yourself, and that’s incredible for a popcorn movie of that scale. Unheard of actually. That’s among the reasons (combined with the insane drive of the films) I think both Dark Knight and to a lesser degree Batman Begins are looked upon today as the best comic-book movies by lots of people and films like Spider-Man 2 and Iron Man falls off a little bit. Both pure fluff with nothing more to chew on, and that kind of kills the replay value. For me anyhow
Not to turn this into a batman lovefest, I like Nolan’s other films a whole lot more. Let Speilberg do the talking: “Chris Nolan is brilliant at non-linear storytelling, between his two great masterworks (“Memento” and “Inception”)” or Guillermo Del Toro: “There is a horizon of hope. We talk about this geek comic book generation, but it wasn’t long ago that nobody made those movies. Look at people like Chris Nolan, or Alfonso Cuaron, these are guys equally at home doing Memento, Y tu Mama Tambien as they are with Harry Potter or Inception. There’s a generation here that is marrying independent filmmaking sensibilities with mainstream, the pop version of what Easy Riders did for the 70s. We’re not going to have another 70s, but we are finding a generation of people like Neill Blomkamp, in movies like Monsters and Buried, that are incredibly innovative pieces of entertainment that have the verve and the audacity that come from independent filmmaking. Nolan and Alfonso are the Mac Daddies of that breed, but Blomkamp, Rodrigo Cortes, they are coming up all over the world. I don’t think the aversion to risk can suffocate this.”
When Nolan got snubbed form his directing oscar last year James Cameron said it best: “I loved Inception, and I wish that it had gotten more, I wish Chris Nolan had gotten nominated for directing that film because I think that it’s the most astounding piece of film creation and direction of the year, hands down … but now it’s not even in the running. So I diverge from the Academy’s taste in a lot of ways.”
Posted by James on December 29th, 2011#41 While the movie takes place in Sweden with swedish actors it’s directed by a dane and mostly funded with danish money. But yes, it isn’t danish, I’m just guessing that’s why Henrik refers to it that way.
Posted by Kasper on December 29th, 2011@ James, you need to slow ur roll, I love TDK, but like all good art it allows people to read meanings in to it. Its a classic tale of villain, hero and questionable “means to an end” topics that have been done over the life of cinema from the shogun to the cowboy. I like ur passion but ease up on the 9/11 allegory. I could easily say that TDK was prophetic in predicting the Occupy Wallstreet Movement and could do a thesis on the hidden clues, LOL.
Posted by rus in chicago on December 29th, 2011oh and ur argument doesn’t hold water because the villains in 9/11 have defined agendas, where as, the villain in TDK has the loose agenda of chaos (both personally and globally) one is self serving for the group the other self serving for the individual – totally different motivations and meanings
Posted by rus in chicago on December 29th, 2011James, just because I think saying “Batman is George W. Bush” is a stretch doesn’t mean I didn’t love the film. Is it a requirement to buy into that interpretation to be a fan of the film? You’re being overly defensive, certainly in this case seeing as we all like The Dark Knight.
I’m not sure if you read the quote in Kent’s comment (#26), but seeing as you’re in to providing evidence of Nolan’s talent via the opinions of respectable directors, here’s a response about the social themes in TDK from the man himself:
“We try not to sit down and write commentary on the world we live in but we do try and write from an honest place and in doing that you do naturally write about the world we live in. But I think you’ve got to do that unconsciously. These films are not meant to be providing specific social commentary, I think that would be alienating and I think it would take the fun out of it,” Nolan said.
Posted by Jay C. on December 29th, 2011Rus not everything has to do with 9.11
There were other terrorists attacks elsewhere you know..
When we speak about a terrorist symbolism we do not directly refer to a 9.11 symbolism. Terrorism is something more broad and abstract.
For example, when your government say.. “war on Terror” what does it mean? The film comments on that concept in a very smart yet direct way
Who created the Terrorism?
How you deal with Terror? What are the ethical dilemmas?
Why can’t Batman Kill Joker?
why do they need each other?
Why our Democracies always need an Enemy?
Nazis-Soviets-Russians-Terrorist-Chinnesee..
you Get the point.
But the thing with TDK is that it’s at the same time a great story as well, a great Action film, a great Thriller. a Great Tragedy.
Most of the time when films combine linear story with allegories the result is horrible , (avatar)
But in some cases (children of men, There will be blood, Shutter Island and TDK)
the result is simply brilliant.
And it is Brilliant because it is done so well that you can ignore it and enjoy a Great Film. that works in many layers. And justify it self without them. because it is not a propaganda film. but Art. And Great Art just Like philosophy. it’s inconclusive.
Posted by kyri on December 29th, 2011Jay: I’m just being a enthusiastic fan, I’ve read that interview as well. It’s ridiculous trying to change someone’s opinion, and it’s not like you guys said you didnt like it or anything, I just felt the need to defend it a little bit. Just a little bit. It’s all in a fun and friendly spirit though, I hoped that came through my posts.
I even brought in total eclipse of the heart, I think I deserve some credit for that.
Posted by James on December 29th, 2011yes, but you ignored my point, you keep talking about terrorism in the current time period. this terrorism has very defined goals on ALL sides. TDK’s representation of terrorism (at one end) is a selfish psychopath whose goals are his own/less concerned with the group (religion, region, government). You keep trying to tie this film to global events yet you ignore information the film gives you. classic reading things in to a great film to expand your enjoyment, thats fine.
Posted by rus in chicago on December 29th, 2011maybe you are right, but to be honest I just don’t see “clear defined goals on ANY side.”
All I see is chaos and nonsense actions/arguments etc..
Anyway.. let’s just say TDK is like the Bible..
a matter of interpretation…
Posted by kyri on December 29th, 2011Leave a Reply