Open Forum Friday: Should Genre Films Ever Be Able to Earn a Perfect Four Star Rating?
Over the past week or so I’ve noticed some discussion over whether or not certain movies are overrated (ie. District 9), in the sense that the ratings and reviews for them are beyond what should typically apply to a movie within its genre. I remember a similar debate popping up back when Sam Raimi’s Drag Me To Hell came out, and at the time, here at Film Junk we gave it a glowing 4-star review. Were we being overly enthusiastic, or was that a fair score for a movie that offers up top notch entertainment?
The idea of assigning a numbered score to a film is a pretty awkward and arbitrary one, and it’s made even more difficult by the fact that everyone uses different scales and different criteria. We decided to go with a 4-star system not only because it’s the defacto standard of top critics like Roger Ebert, but also because it’s not so ridiculously precise that you start to argue over minor mathematical differences. However, the question I want to bring up is not one about rating systems, but rather the idea of judging the best movies in a given year.
Should a 4-star rating only be awarded to a film that is actually 100% perfect? On top of that, are there certain types of films that should not ever receive a 4-star rating because they are of a lower pedigree, intended solely for cheap thrills and adhering to an established formula? Personally I think each movie should be judged against other similar fare. Thus, a horror movie that is at the top of its class is a 4-star horror movie. What do you think? Do 4-star movies only come along once every few years? Is it harder for a genre movie to get top marks? Is there even such a thing as a “perfect” film? Give us your thoughts here on Open Forum Friday.
Comments (15)
I don’t think any genre of film should be excluded from receiving a 4-star rating.
Are there people who see 4-star ratings next to a film in the paper and think Drag Me to Hell is going to be remotely similar to No Country for Old Men, or Hairspray, or whatever? Actually, I bet there are. We need to find these people and push them down into puddles so their jeans get dirty and their knees get cut up.
Putting so much importance on a rating scale of any kind is foolish. The rotten tomatoes rating does not explain a film, it’s the informed critical analysis of films that conveys a level of intellectual, even emotional, resonance, not some number of stars or percentage of tomato splats.
Posted by Ovenball on August 21st, 2009A good movie is a good movie despite it’s genre. Wall-E The Dark Knight, and District 9, say hello! I’m glad to be living in a time when geek films and animated features can finally be taken seriously by both the critics and the general movie going public.
Now I’m looking forward to when a CG character will take home the best actor or actress award. Gollum aka. Andy Serkis was robbed!
Posted by Marc on August 21st, 2009When you ask a friend if Hellboy is any good, you’re not asking if it’s any good compared to Mystic River, you’re asking if it’s any good compared to The Punisher. And my answer would be, on a scale of one to four, if Superman is four, then Hellboy is three and The Punisher is two. In the same way, if American Beauty gets four stars, then (The United States of) Leland clocks in at about two.
-Ebert
Posted by Glendon on August 21st, 2009::::Ovenball and Marc::::
I agree with you both.
I have been using flickchart http://www.flickchart.com/ and the genre thing comes up when I am looking at two movies wondering which one I like better.
Posted by Big Hungry on August 21st, 2009Genres do matter but so does the movie itself and that is more important. What happens when a movie shares two or more genres? hum… a good movie is a good movie but some genres do have more good movies.
I think four star ratings should basicly indicate that the movie is within a certian league when compared to other contempuary films. Basicly anytime I see a movie which I could imagine ending up on my top ten of the year, I’ll give it four stars.
You guys tend to give out a perfect number of four star reviews.
Posted by MJS on August 21st, 2009so does that mean I can’t give Inglorious Bastards 4 stars? Just got back from that shit. I seriously would like to “Being John Malkovich” Tarantino’s head for a day or two because that mofo must see the world as one B reel after another.
Posted by rus in chicago on August 21st, 20094 star’s 5 star’s doe’s it even matter? NO,It’s about that kid finding the movie 20-30 year’s from now and wanting to make movie’s, all this online talk and boxoffice bullshit matters not.
Posted by jaime on August 21st, 2009If I’m trying to work out what rating out of 4 that I’d give to a film I often think that a film only needs to be in the top quarter of all the films I’ve seen to get that rating. On the other hand maybe this is being too generous. If Theodore Sturgeon is right that 90 % of everything is shit, then maybe 90 % of the movies I see should be rated 1 star and the bottom 90 % of the top 10% should be 2 stars and so on. That would mean that only 10 % of 10 % of 10% would get a 4 star rating. My maths isn’t very good but I think that would be 1 film in 1000. But just because 1 in 1000 films deserves 4 stars doesn’t mean we should give out that rating only once in 1000 films we watch as most of the worst films languish in deserved obscurity.
Whether genre and seriousness of intent should effect rating depends on who is the audience for the review. We want to know whether a film delivers the kind of entertainment we are looking for. To a gore hound Three on a Meathook may be a better film than The Seventh Seal. And I don’t think we can properly rate a film in a particular genre if we don’t have at least some appreciation of the genre. This particularly applies to more extreme genres like sexploitation, porn, gore and gross out humour. If the subject matter doesn’t appeal then one is unlikely to appreciate aspects of plot, acting, cinematography, etc. But I think that one genre which is often rated unfairly on podcasts which normally concentrate on action and fantasy genres is that of romantic comedy. While there is a fair bit of agreement when it comes to praising standout examples – e.g. Four Weddings and a Funeral – mediocre examples – e.g. Four Christmases and Marley & Me – are sometimes treated as bad movies rather than competent but unexceptional examples of a genre of which the reviewer is not overly fond.
Posted by David Munn on August 22nd, 2009A good movie is a good movie. I’ve never been too sure what a “genre” movie is? I suppose even the human drama Oscar bait stuff still fits into a genre. I’m not one that often rates a movies as perfect but I have no problem with people claiming that something that is ostensibly constrained within the mold of a given genre serves the expectations and requirements of that genre “perfectly”.
Posted by Ian on August 22nd, 2009Star ratings should reflect a person’s own personal reaction to a movie and maybe a bit of a combination of technical merit to boot. Can any genre receive the perfect score? Of course. Let the Right One In probably comes close. As does Drag me to Hell or Oldboy.
For me personally, as a “critic” I guess, the genre of film matters not when assigning my personal star rating. It’s just that horror films and genre films don’t impact me as much as a good human drama story. But that’s just me. A perfect score from me is a rare breed. There are so many elements that need to come together just right for a perfect score. I don’t think I’ve seen one yet this year (maybe Anvil! or The Girlfriend Experience).
I need a movie to have me sitting in my seat throughout the credits pondering what I just saw. I want a movie to have me sitting with jaw open. I want to be thinking about it for days and itching to talk about it with friends. And just for me personally, a movie about a girl possessed by the devil isn’t likely to do that – or a movie about three guys in Vegas trying to remember what happened the night before. I may come out of the movie smiling, I may have a had a good time, I may have laughed a bunch of times or been shocked about something. But am I thinking about it a week later? Probably not.
Just thought of another one: The Class. That’s one that really brought something new and interesting to the table, had great acting, fantastic dialogue, interesting story and had me thinking about it for days afterwards. THAT’S a perfect score movie to me.
Posted by Andrew James on August 22nd, 2009Majority of the movies I like the most are so-called genre movies. Genre should not matter when giving ratings in my opinion.
By the way, I really hated Drag Me to Hell. I really love the Evil Dead films. Go figure
Posted by Hanoi_Xan on August 22nd, 2009I love this site, and sean’s reviews, but I’ll be honest…the star rating is retarded, rating anything is retarded, infact even calling a film good or bad is retarded. The best cinema criticism discusses the film in depth, which will reveal if the reviewer sheds it in a negative light or positive. Rating systems, like stars and thumbs up, are/were the beginning of the ADD reviewing generation, that doesn’t want to read, they just want to see a percentage (of course this is has gotten 100,000 times worse in the past decade due to the internet and rotten tomatoes).
Posted by Bob The Slob on August 22nd, 2009@andrew james
If you only think 4 stars should go to films that drop your jaw instantly…isn’t that a bit blind for the long haul?
I firmly believe that a film can’t truly be assessed until at least 5 years after its release. If we went by star ratings how many of us in our late 20s, 30s would hate, dislike, or even disregard films that we saw in theaters over a decade ago? Big Lebowski? Most people didn’t get that during its release…no jaws were dropped…now a decade later, the same people regard it as a masterpiece.
Time passage is the ONLY true critic.
Posted by Bob The Slob on August 22nd, 2009My like and dislikes on Genres for movies have alot to do with what mood I am in when I see them.
This got me thinking.
The old question is there a perfect 10 women out there. Or do we all just settle for less in the end. Ok back to movies….
So is there even a perfect movie out there? So is there even a perfect Genre for movies? Are people too Highbrow with certain Genres? If someone does not like a movie because it is from a certain Genre is that like being a movie racist (Genrist)? Not seeing what is on the inside that counts? http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=genrist
And more important what does Reed think? He hates a lot of good movies or maybe he is just very reserved in his rating and is waiting on the perfect movie? How can one that likes SciFi so much, not like D-9? This Genre question should be on a Cantankerous Episode.
Posted by Big Hungry on August 23rd, 2009Big Hungry, I agree completely with your statement about mood affecting the viewing of a film.
I am terrible at assessing a film’s artistic merits even though I generally like reading the academic viewpoint. Most movie reviews are simply opinion pieces basing films on their entertainment value to the review writer.
I don’t like giving star ratings although I can appreciate why people like them.
I admit that I am wary of my initial reactions to a film. Actually, my opinion of a film can change depending on the mood I am in. As I get older, I find it harder for a film to amaze me, even films that most people would consider “groundbreaking.” I think I tend to favor films that affected me emotionally on my initial viewing.
I don’t understand why many people think that other people should have the same opinion of something as they do.
Big Hungry, I think I’ll summarize my likes and dislikes for “District 9″ under the Film Junk podcast post.
Posted by Reed Farrington on August 23rd, 2009Leave a Reply