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	<title>Comments on: Film Junk Podcast Episode #221: Up and Drag Me To Hell</title>
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		<title>By: J D</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/06/02/film-junk-podcast-episode-221-up-and-drag-me-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-592015</link>
		<dc:creator>J D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 01:04:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=21552#comment-592015</guid>
		<description>Why the FUCK are you tarking about that COCKSUKER Eminem who give&#039;s a SHIT?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why the FUCK are you tarking about that COCKSUKER Eminem who give&#8217;s a SHIT?</p>
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		<title>By: rus in chicago</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/06/02/film-junk-podcast-episode-221-up-and-drag-me-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-590492</link>
		<dc:creator>rus in chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 17:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=21552#comment-590492</guid>
		<description>This whole thing started as a reaction to Jay&#039;s view on the podcast about the Slumdog issue brought up by Sean.  

I was clearly making the case that a real issue did exist and that issue is unique to any other film.  If someone wants to show me an example from the film world that is similar to this film and all the variables involved; I&#039;d welcome the wisdom.

I really don&#039;t have to solve the issue since my view has always been its unique and deserves care and consideration from the filmmakers.  It appears from recent news stories I&#039;ve read online they are doing that.  I feel they were blindsided by the bulldozing of the one star&#039;s home.

As far as your last statement about an act of violence against one of the CHILDREN helping the film - that isn&#039;t the world I live in, nor, do I want to think about that type world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole thing started as a reaction to Jay&#8217;s view on the podcast about the Slumdog issue brought up by Sean.  </p>
<p>I was clearly making the case that a real issue did exist and that issue is unique to any other film.  If someone wants to show me an example from the film world that is similar to this film and all the variables involved; I&#8217;d welcome the wisdom.</p>
<p>I really don&#8217;t have to solve the issue since my view has always been its unique and deserves care and consideration from the filmmakers.  It appears from recent news stories I&#8217;ve read online they are doing that.  I feel they were blindsided by the bulldozing of the one star&#8217;s home.</p>
<p>As far as your last statement about an act of violence against one of the CHILDREN helping the film &#8211; that isn&#8217;t the world I live in, nor, do I want to think about that type world.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil G</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/06/02/film-junk-podcast-episode-221-up-and-drag-me-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-590484</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 17:24:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=21552#comment-590484</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sorry, dude, I just wrap my mind around your logic on this. I&#039;m really not trying to be argumentative.

Forget the fact that your claim that the movie is successul primarily because of the real location and real actors. (I think you mean non-actors, because I&#039;m not sure what the fuck a real actor is. As opposed to a fake actor?)  This is nothing more than supposition on your part. You&#039;re right, it would be a very different film: better/worse; more or less succesful; more or less critically acclaimed we&#039;ll never know. 

How long are the producer&#039;s responsible to these kids and the community? In perpetuity? Where does it end, and how much is enough? You seem to be saying that the kids and community should benefit in direct proportion to the success of the movie and that somehow the producers are more responsible just because the movie happened to be a success. I just think that is insane. If the movie would have been a box office turd, the responsibilty of the producers would end and the kids would be fucked. For your argument to to be consistant, I think the producer&#039;s responsibility should be the same no matter how much the movie has made or will make.  

Any movie is going to be affected if something tragic happens to one of the actors. What makes this movie any different? It seems that since we are talking about doe eyed, cute as hell little kids that take great photos for the media to publish it&#039;s more of an issue than it would ordinarily be. 

And perhaps I am way more cynical that I should be, but if one of the kids were rapped, killed, or sold I tend to believe it would be better for the business of SLUMDOG and not harm it in the least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry, dude, I just wrap my mind around your logic on this. I&#8217;m really not trying to be argumentative.</p>
<p>Forget the fact that your claim that the movie is successul primarily because of the real location and real actors. (I think you mean non-actors, because I&#8217;m not sure what the fuck a real actor is. As opposed to a fake actor?)  This is nothing more than supposition on your part. You&#8217;re right, it would be a very different film: better/worse; more or less succesful; more or less critically acclaimed we&#8217;ll never know. </p>
<p>How long are the producer&#8217;s responsible to these kids and the community? In perpetuity? Where does it end, and how much is enough? You seem to be saying that the kids and community should benefit in direct proportion to the success of the movie and that somehow the producers are more responsible just because the movie happened to be a success. I just think that is insane. If the movie would have been a box office turd, the responsibilty of the producers would end and the kids would be fucked. For your argument to to be consistant, I think the producer&#8217;s responsibility should be the same no matter how much the movie has made or will make.  </p>
<p>Any movie is going to be affected if something tragic happens to one of the actors. What makes this movie any different? It seems that since we are talking about doe eyed, cute as hell little kids that take great photos for the media to publish it&#8217;s more of an issue than it would ordinarily be. </p>
<p>And perhaps I am way more cynical that I should be, but if one of the kids were rapped, killed, or sold I tend to believe it would be better for the business of SLUMDOG and not harm it in the least.</p>
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		<title>By: rus in chicago</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/06/02/film-junk-podcast-episode-221-up-and-drag-me-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-590464</link>
		<dc:creator>rus in chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 16:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=21552#comment-590464</guid>
		<description>Yes, it is my belief that the film&#039;s success is directly proportional to the real environs and real actors used, which, makes this issue singular and more of a loaded issue.  Yes, you are right it can&#039;t be proven, but in your minds eye you could imagine a Slumdog with studio sets, real actors, etc.  Very different film.

On the business side, I was just thinking about this as I drove back from a meeting.  The worst thing that could happen from a business perspective is if something tragic happened to these children.  This film is an Oscar winner and has a long life ahead in sales and showings.  The last thing the business people behind the film want is one of the children being raped, killed, sold, etc.  You can&#039;t come back from that type of negative publicity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it is my belief that the film&#8217;s success is directly proportional to the real environs and real actors used, which, makes this issue singular and more of a loaded issue.  Yes, you are right it can&#8217;t be proven, but in your minds eye you could imagine a Slumdog with studio sets, real actors, etc.  Very different film.</p>
<p>On the business side, I was just thinking about this as I drove back from a meeting.  The worst thing that could happen from a business perspective is if something tragic happened to these children.  This film is an Oscar winner and has a long life ahead in sales and showings.  The last thing the business people behind the film want is one of the children being raped, killed, sold, etc.  You can&#8217;t come back from that type of negative publicity.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil G</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/06/02/film-junk-podcast-episode-221-up-and-drag-me-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-590456</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 16:20:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=21552#comment-590456</guid>
		<description>Maybe I missed something, but I don&#039;t really understand Rus&#039; arguement here. He seems to be saying that since they filmed this on location in the the actual environment/conditions these kids live in that somehow the producers are MORE obligated to the actors and that environment. Does that mean that if they had decided to replicate the environment in the studio but used the same actors they would not be as obligated to the actor and community?

&quot;the ONLY way this film does what it does critically and financially is if the filmmakers choose to film real evirons and real occupants of those environs.&quot; 

This is a statement that cannot be proven one way or the other. It&#039;s may be true that part of the impact of the film comes from the use of real locations, but it is of course impossible to say what the impact would have been if they had chose a different way to tell the story. 

I frankly do not understand what the debate is. From a business point of view, the producers have no responsibility what so ever to anyone above and beyond what they have already done. Services were rendered under contract and everyone was paid accordingly. 

Morally, maybe you have a point that more should be done. However, as Jay has already pointed out, even before SLUMDOG became such as success the producers were already taking it upon themselves to go above and beyond what was needed. 

Say we accept Rus&#039; arguement at face value. If what is being done is inadequate, what should be done?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe I missed something, but I don&#8217;t really understand Rus&#8217; arguement here. He seems to be saying that since they filmed this on location in the the actual environment/conditions these kids live in that somehow the producers are MORE obligated to the actors and that environment. Does that mean that if they had decided to replicate the environment in the studio but used the same actors they would not be as obligated to the actor and community?</p>
<p>&#8220;the ONLY way this film does what it does critically and financially is if the filmmakers choose to film real evirons and real occupants of those environs.&#8221; </p>
<p>This is a statement that cannot be proven one way or the other. It&#8217;s may be true that part of the impact of the film comes from the use of real locations, but it is of course impossible to say what the impact would have been if they had chose a different way to tell the story. </p>
<p>I frankly do not understand what the debate is. From a business point of view, the producers have no responsibility what so ever to anyone above and beyond what they have already done. Services were rendered under contract and everyone was paid accordingly. </p>
<p>Morally, maybe you have a point that more should be done. However, as Jay has already pointed out, even before SLUMDOG became such as success the producers were already taking it upon themselves to go above and beyond what was needed. </p>
<p>Say we accept Rus&#8217; arguement at face value. If what is being done is inadequate, what should be done?</p>
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		<title>By: rus in chicago</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/06/02/film-junk-podcast-episode-221-up-and-drag-me-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-590416</link>
		<dc:creator>rus in chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 14:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=21552#comment-590416</guid>
		<description>from my quick research I found this:

http://topnews.us/content/24930-slumdog-s-jai-ho-trust-comes-forward-rescue-film-s-child-star-rubina-ali

It appears my original thoughts are correct:

1. There is an ISSUE here.
2. The trust, and other ways to help the children, is a fluid issue being changed as needed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>from my quick research I found this:</p>
<p><a href="http://topnews.us/content/24930-slumdog-s-jai-ho-trust-comes-forward-rescue-film-s-child-star-rubina-ali" rel="nofollow">http://topnews.us/content/24930-slumdog-s-jai-ho-trust-comes-forward-rescue-film-s-child-star-rubina-ali</a></p>
<p>It appears my original thoughts are correct:</p>
<p>1. There is an ISSUE here.<br />
2. The trust, and other ways to help the children, is a fluid issue being changed as needed.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/06/02/film-junk-podcast-episode-221-up-and-drag-me-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-590270</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 05:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=21552#comment-590270</guid>
		<description>Two comments enter. . . .and that&#039;s about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two comments enter. . . .and that&#8217;s about it.</p>
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		<title>By: ProjectGenesis</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/06/02/film-junk-podcast-episode-221-up-and-drag-me-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-590174</link>
		<dc:creator>ProjectGenesis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 00:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=21552#comment-590174</guid>
		<description>Man, Jay and Rus are totally in Thunderdome right now!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man, Jay and Rus are totally in Thunderdome right now!</p>
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		<title>By: rus in chicago</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/06/02/film-junk-podcast-episode-221-up-and-drag-me-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-590063</link>
		<dc:creator>rus in chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=21552#comment-590063</guid>
		<description>Another thing that is relevant to an actual film discussion is the fact that this Slumdog issue is directly related to the film&#039;s success.  What I mean by that is the ONLY way this film does what it does critically and financially is if the filmmakers choose to film real evirons and real occupants of those environs.  Danny Boyle is a master filmmaker at this film style but he is only as good as the real locations and interactions of his environment.  We as an audience enjoy the piece and feel the experience because of this.  The filmmakers knew this and capitalized on this in more ways than one.  I&#039;m not saying its wrong and I&#039;m actually glad they did it this way.  But that being said, it makes issues related to the children and people of those environs much more of a topic for debate.  To summarize: Slumdog is a product of its environment, these issues relate to the filmmakers obligation to that environment. 

To head Jay off at the pass, narrative film and documentary film play in different ballparks in terms of story structure, buget, industry standard residuals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another thing that is relevant to an actual film discussion is the fact that this Slumdog issue is directly related to the film&#8217;s success.  What I mean by that is the ONLY way this film does what it does critically and financially is if the filmmakers choose to film real evirons and real occupants of those environs.  Danny Boyle is a master filmmaker at this film style but he is only as good as the real locations and interactions of his environment.  We as an audience enjoy the piece and feel the experience because of this.  The filmmakers knew this and capitalized on this in more ways than one.  I&#8217;m not saying its wrong and I&#8217;m actually glad they did it this way.  But that being said, it makes issues related to the children and people of those environs much more of a topic for debate.  To summarize: Slumdog is a product of its environment, these issues relate to the filmmakers obligation to that environment. </p>
<p>To head Jay off at the pass, narrative film and documentary film play in different ballparks in terms of story structure, buget, industry standard residuals.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay C.</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/06/02/film-junk-podcast-episode-221-up-and-drag-me-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-590048</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=21552#comment-590048</guid>
		<description>I was talking about the trust funds being held back so the parents couldn&#039;t get to them and to avoid peers/neighbours/family from causing trouble, thus Carmen Meets Borat is a good example of how the prospect of money from a film company wreaks havoc in a poor village.

Didn&#039;t mention anything about the children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was talking about the trust funds being held back so the parents couldn&#8217;t get to them and to avoid peers/neighbours/family from causing trouble, thus Carmen Meets Borat is a good example of how the prospect of money from a film company wreaks havoc in a poor village.</p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t mention anything about the children.</p>
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		<title>By: rus in chicago</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/06/02/film-junk-podcast-episode-221-up-and-drag-me-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-590041</link>
		<dc:creator>rus in chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 16:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=21552#comment-590041</guid>
		<description>Carmen Meets Borat is not the same thing.  We can&#039;t forget we are talking about children here.  The prime village &quot;actors&quot; in Borat are adults and not scripted roles.  Children and adults have different standards in every aspect of legal and governmental control.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carmen Meets Borat is not the same thing.  We can&#8217;t forget we are talking about children here.  The prime village &#8220;actors&#8221; in Borat are adults and not scripted roles.  Children and adults have different standards in every aspect of legal and governmental control.</p>
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		<title>By: rus in chicago</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/06/02/film-junk-podcast-episode-221-up-and-drag-me-to-hell/comment-page-1/#comment-590039</link>
		<dc:creator>rus in chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 16:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=21552#comment-590039</guid>
		<description>but the additional community outreach and other payouts are after those dates/original agreements (neither of us nor the public has the facts) agian it is a fluid issue, there is no right answer.  it&#039;s o.k. to revisit the issue if new factors come about, i.e., the stars having their homes bulldozed, or, a film based on slums in India exceeding the producers expectations by 100 times!  The filmmakers could never have predicted this outcome and wrote their agreements that way.  Truth be told, if the film failed the child stars would not be in jeopardy from thieves, it&#039;s all related.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>but the additional community outreach and other payouts are after those dates/original agreements (neither of us nor the public has the facts) agian it is a fluid issue, there is no right answer.  it&#8217;s o.k. to revisit the issue if new factors come about, i.e., the stars having their homes bulldozed, or, a film based on slums in India exceeding the producers expectations by 100 times!  The filmmakers could never have predicted this outcome and wrote their agreements that way.  Truth be told, if the film failed the child stars would not be in jeopardy from thieves, it&#8217;s all related.</p>
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