Comments on: David Hayter Tries to Guilt You Into Seeing Watchmen Again http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/03/11/david-hayter-tries-to-guilt-you-into-seeing-watchmen-again/ Blog and Podcast Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:05:02 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: rus in chicago http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/03/11/david-hayter-tries-to-guilt-you-into-seeing-watchmen-again/comment-page-1/#comment-551778 rus in chicago Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:59:10 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=17089#comment-551778 I owe the Film Junk community an apology. I finally saw Watchmen last night and really enjoyed it! If you read the book and were entertained you need to see this in the theatre. I have a new respect for Synder as he worked his ass off on this thing – you really feel like you’re in the world of the Watchmen. This film is a study in textures, the way they created Rorshach’s mask, the large amount of money they spent on rain, the detailed costumes, the hot grease on the Rorshach’s attacker, way Synder filmed characters thru windows and doorways, the wide shots on Mars, all are amazing. He really worked overtime and pushed all departments to get the feel of the graphic novel right. I agree with Kevin Smith on the Slash Filmcast (yes, I cheat on filmjunk) that Warner Bros. needs all of our respect for green lighting this version of Wartchmen and what they did on Dark Knight. Like Kevin said, they are the place to be for kickass movies these days. I like a lot of the changes/omissions Synder choose; removing the floating segways, the hot coffee rescue, Black Freighter, etc. I can see how everyone can be down on the changed ended, but I loved so much of the origin stories I didn’t care at that point. What Synder should have done is make Dr. Manhattan more of an aloof “free agent”, than he is, that way the ended would have been stronger (more plausible). As it stands now, the Russians would think the U.S. and Dr. Manhattan are pulling a fast one on them and not be so quick to agree to a truce. I owe the Film Junk community an apology. I finally saw Watchmen last night and really enjoyed it! If you read the book and were entertained you need to see this in the theatre. I have a new respect for Synder as he worked his ass off on this thing – you really feel like you’re in the world of the Watchmen.
This film is a study in textures, the way they created Rorshach’s mask, the large amount of money they spent on rain, the detailed costumes, the hot grease on the Rorshach’s attacker, way Synder filmed characters thru windows and doorways, the wide shots on Mars, all are amazing. He really worked overtime and pushed all departments to get the feel of the graphic novel right.
I agree with Kevin Smith on the Slash Filmcast (yes, I cheat on filmjunk) that Warner Bros. needs all of our respect for green lighting this version of Wartchmen and what they did on Dark Knight. Like Kevin said, they are the place to be for kickass movies these days.
I like a lot of the changes/omissions Synder choose; removing the floating segways, the hot coffee rescue, Black Freighter, etc. I can see how everyone can be down on the changed ended, but I loved so much of the origin stories I didn’t care at that point. What Synder should have done is make Dr. Manhattan more of an aloof “free agent”, than he is, that way the ended would have been stronger (more plausible). As it stands now, the Russians would think the U.S. and Dr. Manhattan are pulling a fast one on them and not be so quick to agree to a truce.

]]> By: Roberto http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/03/11/david-hayter-tries-to-guilt-you-into-seeing-watchmen-again/comment-page-1/#comment-550767 Roberto Sat, 14 Mar 2009 20:02:15 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=17089#comment-550767 I wouldn't say it wasn't good. I do think it's a memorable movie that's quite stunning and imaginative. Yes, it was changed, and the marketing made it out to be the only comic ever made, but I think it will attract customers for a long time, if not for anything but because it exists. A lot of non-fans who knew nothing of the comic were not expecting such a story, or such an attempt to convey it. I could see something happening to it like what George Lucas did to his original Star Wars trilogy, and have new sequences and CGI worked in to get the story to what the comic was like. This would mean a new squid ending, and new insertions from the comic, such as the newsstand. This could be done for the DVD release and may already exist to an extent because of the full length of the unedited version being so much longer than the screen release. Whatever was edited out for time must be significant in some way. If they did this, fans would come. They should do this. David Hayters approach, however, is a little odd for me. It was plainly clear to him and The Watchmen producers, doing a faithful movie adaptation of The Watchmen, under 300 director Zack Snyder, and after having screened the movie and footage months before audiences and their knowing of all the intent of the production in the pre-production phase onward, what kind of movie was going to be released, restricted rating or not. The Watchmen could all have been naked blue guys in a hyper-violent movie, but what mattered in the end was the final story and how it was portrayed to the viewing audience. This could have started with better movie trailers informing the prospective audience who The Watchmen were and hinting at what the story was ultimately about. If you see trailers for 2001:A Space Odyssey, the Christopher Reeve Superman, Star Wars, Alien and the original Rollerball, you see how well they brought you into the story, even if you'd never heard of the movies or stories before. I wouldn’t say it wasn’t good. I do think it’s a memorable movie that’s quite stunning and imaginative. Yes, it was changed, and the marketing made it out to be the only comic ever made, but I think it will attract customers for a long time, if not for anything but because it exists. A lot of non-fans who knew nothing of the comic were not expecting such a story, or such an attempt to convey it. I could see something happening to it like what George Lucas did to his original Star Wars trilogy, and have new sequences and CGI worked in to get the story to what the comic was like. This would mean a new squid ending, and new insertions from the comic, such as the newsstand. This could be done for the DVD release and may already exist to an extent because of the full length of the unedited version being so much longer than the screen release. Whatever was edited out for time must be significant in some way. If they did this, fans would come. They should do this.

David Hayters approach, however, is a little odd for me. It was plainly clear to him and The Watchmen producers, doing a faithful movie adaptation of The Watchmen, under 300 director Zack Snyder, and after having screened the movie and footage months before audiences and their knowing of all the intent of the production in the pre-production phase onward, what kind of movie was going to be released, restricted rating or not. The Watchmen could all have been naked blue guys in a hyper-violent movie, but what mattered in the end was the final story and how it was portrayed to the viewing audience. This could have started with better movie trailers informing the prospective audience who The Watchmen were and hinting at what the story was ultimately about. If you see trailers for 2001:A Space Odyssey, the Christopher Reeve Superman, Star Wars, Alien and the original Rollerball, you see how well they brought you into the story, even if you’d never heard of the movies or stories before.

]]> By: Liney http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/03/11/david-hayter-tries-to-guilt-you-into-seeing-watchmen-again/comment-page-1/#comment-549575 Liney Thu, 12 Mar 2009 13:07:39 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=17089#comment-549575 “If the film made you think. Or argue with your friends. If it inspired a debate about the nature of man, or vigilante justice, or the horror of Nixon abolishing term limits. If you laughed at Bowie hanging with Adrian at Studio 54, or the Silhouette kissing that nurse." Unfortunately, the film didn't really do any of these things. Although I liked it overall, it's not half as clever as it probably thinks it is. If the idea is to get interesting and thought provoking cinema made, there are a lot more deserving causes that people should go and see before Watchmen if we're talking about voting with our feet. “If the film made you think. Or argue with your friends. If it inspired a debate about the nature of man, or vigilante justice, or the horror of Nixon abolishing term limits. If you laughed at Bowie hanging with Adrian at Studio 54, or the Silhouette kissing that nurse.”

Unfortunately, the film didn’t really do any of these things. Although I liked it overall, it’s not half as clever as it probably thinks it is. If the idea is to get interesting and thought provoking cinema made, there are a lot more deserving causes that people should go and see before Watchmen if we’re talking about voting with our feet.

]]> By: Ryan M. http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/03/11/david-hayter-tries-to-guilt-you-into-seeing-watchmen-again/comment-page-1/#comment-549500 Ryan M. Thu, 12 Mar 2009 07:48:42 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=17089#comment-549500 "Is it Apocalypse Now? Is it Blade Runner? Is it Kubrick, or Starship Troopers? I don't know yet." -David Hayter Bitch please. You know it wasn't that good. Well...it's possibly better than Starship Troopers but I'm gonna have to see it again--ON BLU-RAY--to confirm that. Wait...no. I'm sorry David you're awesome and did a solid job. Will you do the Solid Snake voice now? Please. Just for a few seconds. “Is it Apocalypse Now? Is it Blade Runner? Is it Kubrick, or Starship Troopers? I don’t know yet.”

-David Hayter

Bitch please. You know it wasn’t that good. Well…it’s possibly better than Starship Troopers but I’m gonna have to see it again–ON BLU-RAY–to confirm that.

Wait…no. I’m sorry David you’re awesome and did a solid job. Will you do the Solid Snake voice now? Please. Just for a few seconds.

]]> By: John Locke http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/03/11/david-hayter-tries-to-guilt-you-into-seeing-watchmen-again/comment-page-1/#comment-549467 John Locke Thu, 12 Mar 2009 06:10:19 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=17089#comment-549467 Jeez, why did this movie cost $130 million? They made 300 in half the cost (65million). I can't think of a significant amount of CGI used, I mean Dr Manhattan CGI would have been pretty expensive but still $130 mil? Transformer had a ton more CGI and special effects and that movie "only" cost $150 million. I have heard rumours that Zack Snyder has a 4.5 hr long directors cut to be released on dvd. If that is true that explains the budget. They made Cloverfield in less then $25 million. That movie looks like a $75 million movie. It was an excellent movie, it did not have a lot of mainstream appeal but still managed to grab a shitload of profit for the studio due to a smaller budget. The same is true for 'The Fountain' eventhough it did not make a whole lot of money it looks more expensive then it is. It is a perfect example of making the best of your resources and I just wish more movies did that. Jeez, why did this movie cost $130 million? They made 300 in half the cost (65million). I can’t think of a significant amount of CGI used, I mean Dr Manhattan CGI would have been pretty expensive but still $130 mil? Transformer had a ton more CGI and special effects and that movie “only” cost $150 million. I have heard rumours that Zack Snyder has a 4.5 hr long directors cut to be released on dvd. If that is true that explains the budget.

They made Cloverfield in less then $25 million. That movie looks like a $75 million movie. It was an excellent movie, it did not have a lot of mainstream appeal but still managed to grab a shitload of profit for the studio due to a smaller budget. The same is true for ‘The Fountain’ eventhough it did not make a whole lot of money it looks more expensive then it is. It is a perfect example of making the best of your resources and I just wish more movies did that.

]]> By: Ian http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/03/11/david-hayter-tries-to-guilt-you-into-seeing-watchmen-again/comment-page-1/#comment-549444 Ian Thu, 12 Mar 2009 04:46:52 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=17089#comment-549444 Well seeing a movie is a democratic act in a way. This dude is just stumping for one he thinks is worth more votes. Nothing wrong with that. I mean it's sad and kind of stupid much like watching a person campaign but so it goes. If people agree with the dude then they'll see it again and if not they'll see Blart or something. There's no accounting for taste. I wonder who watches the tastemakers? And who enforces the trends? Well seeing a movie is a democratic act in a way. This dude is just stumping for one he thinks is worth more votes. Nothing wrong with that. I mean it’s sad and kind of stupid much like watching a person campaign but so it goes. If people agree with the dude then they’ll see it again and if not they’ll see Blart or something. There’s no accounting for taste. I wonder who watches the tastemakers? And who enforces the trends?

]]> By: rus in chicago http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/03/11/david-hayter-tries-to-guilt-you-into-seeing-watchmen-again/comment-page-1/#comment-549409 rus in chicago Thu, 12 Mar 2009 03:05:58 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=17089#comment-549409 dude, profits are after expenses paid - Fox is in the same boat as everyone else. All Fox is doing is taking a share of the profits. dude, profits are after expenses paid – Fox is in the same boat as everyone else. All Fox is doing is taking a share of the profits.

]]> By: fatbologna http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/03/11/david-hayter-tries-to-guilt-you-into-seeing-watchmen-again/comment-page-1/#comment-549383 fatbologna Thu, 12 Mar 2009 02:05:41 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=17089#comment-549383 As much as it seems a little cheesy of him to ask everyone to see the movie in the theater a second time, I can see where he's coming from. After all the fighting they did to get it made faithfully it would be pretty damn disappointing to see it fail. The DVDs will probably recoup the budget no problem though. Fox's involvement has really made this a pain in the ass too, as the film wouldn't have such an uphill battle if not for them. I think that if you keep comic films specifically in mind then understanding Hayter's point is a little easier. As much as I love the PG,PG-13 comic films I'd really love to see some of the more challenging hard-R stuff make it to the screen. VERTIGO is a very fertile ground for mature material and I'd much rather see a PREACHER film than another hundred carbon-copy MARVEL flicks. I think studios in general need to stop thinking that an event movie needs to have a $300million budget to be relevant as well. WATCHMEN was really great and the fact that the people who this was made for are being so nitpicky about it really bothers me. I can see where most of them are coming from, but Snyder seems to be taking a lot of flack for stuff that I guarantee the studio forced on him. they hired the "visionary" director of 300, so you know they were expecting some action. He had to bring that into it. The changes to the ending, ESPECIALLY the smaller details like changing of lines, whether the OWL witnessed and mourned Rorschach's death, Dan and the Spectre's desperate final love scene and the lack of a physical gory representation of Adrian's world-decimation seem to be unfairly put all on Snyder's shoulders. It seems to me that he was using the graphic novel as his bible and did his best to fight for a %100 adaptation. The studio for sure made him compromise on things and that's very understandable given the material. I'll probably not see it again theatrically(unless it comes to IMAX here), but I'll surely be purchasing more than 1 version of the DVD when the inevitable double-triple dip occurs. I'll always try to support mature genre films as well as indie stuff as the market is far too saturated with watered down "crowd pleasers". Luckily for us all foreign studios have caught up budget-wise and are now responsible for some of the best genre films of the new millennium! As much as it seems a little cheesy of him to ask everyone to see the movie in the theater a second time, I can see where he’s coming from. After all the fighting they did to get it made faithfully it would be pretty damn disappointing to see it fail. The DVDs will probably recoup the budget no problem though. Fox’s involvement has really made this a pain in the ass too, as the film wouldn’t have such an uphill battle if not for them. I think that if you keep comic films specifically in mind then understanding Hayter’s point is a little easier. As much as I love the PG,PG-13 comic films I’d really love to see some of the more challenging hard-R stuff make it to the screen. VERTIGO is a very fertile ground for mature material and I’d much rather see a PREACHER film than another hundred carbon-copy MARVEL flicks. I think studios in general need to stop thinking that an event movie needs to have a $300million budget to be relevant as well.

WATCHMEN was really great and the fact that the people who this was made for are being so nitpicky about it really bothers me. I can see where most of them are coming from, but Snyder seems to be taking a lot of flack for stuff that I guarantee the studio forced on him. they hired the “visionary” director of 300, so you know they were expecting some action. He had to bring that into it. The changes to the ending, ESPECIALLY the smaller details like changing of lines, whether the OWL witnessed and mourned Rorschach’s death, Dan and the Spectre’s desperate final love scene and the lack of a physical gory representation of Adrian’s world-decimation seem to be unfairly put all on Snyder’s shoulders. It seems to me that he was using the graphic novel as his bible and did his best to fight for a %100 adaptation. The studio for sure made him compromise on things and that’s very understandable given the material.

I’ll probably not see it again theatrically(unless it comes to IMAX here), but I’ll surely be purchasing more than 1 version of the DVD when the inevitable double-triple dip occurs. I’ll always try to support mature genre films as well as indie stuff as the market is far too saturated with watered down “crowd pleasers”.

Luckily for us all foreign studios have caught up budget-wise and are now responsible for some of the best genre films of the new millennium!

]]> By: swarez http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/03/11/david-hayter-tries-to-guilt-you-into-seeing-watchmen-again/comment-page-1/#comment-549308 swarez Wed, 11 Mar 2009 23:43:39 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=17089#comment-549308 If it's good, people will come again. There are factors against that, the rating of course and the running time, most people don't have the patience to sit through such a long film again, The Dark Knight proved that wrong but we are talking about a totally different franchise and a recently dead super star. What I like to know is why these stories aren't made for TV, where you have the luxury of time to tell the story and with cable networks creating some of the best "cinema" these days I don't see why that would be a problem. If it’s good, people will come again. There are factors against that, the rating of course and the running time, most people don’t have the patience to sit through such a long film again, The Dark Knight proved that wrong but we are talking about a totally different franchise and a recently dead super star.
What I like to know is why these stories aren’t made for TV, where you have the luxury of time to tell the story and with cable networks creating some of the best “cinema” these days I don’t see why that would be a problem.

]]> By: Rusty James http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/03/11/david-hayter-tries-to-guilt-you-into-seeing-watchmen-again/comment-page-1/#comment-549297 Rusty James Wed, 11 Mar 2009 23:23:36 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=17089#comment-549297 @ People can advance thought provoking cinema by renting, buying, attending more independent films. yes. It's getting harder for films to find theatrical distribution and audiences are less willing to go out and see films that haven't been presold by some marketing blitz. That's the real threat to films with "balls and brains" @ People can advance thought provoking cinema by renting, buying, attending more independent films.

yes. It’s getting harder for films to find theatrical distribution and audiences are less willing to go out and see films that haven’t been presold by some marketing blitz.
That’s the real threat to films with “balls and brains”

]]> By: rus in chicago http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/03/11/david-hayter-tries-to-guilt-you-into-seeing-watchmen-again/comment-page-1/#comment-549263 rus in chicago Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:14:07 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=17089#comment-549263 oh, and the only additional film that gets greenlit by this tactic is WATCHMEN 2 - without Alan Moore attached!! what a dumbass, really! oh, and the only additional film that gets greenlit by this tactic is WATCHMEN 2 – without Alan Moore attached!!

what a dumbass, really!

]]> By: rus in chicago http://www.filmjunk.com/2009/03/11/david-hayter-tries-to-guilt-you-into-seeing-watchmen-again/comment-page-1/#comment-549262 rus in chicago Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:09:09 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=17089#comment-549262 This guy is a dumbass and hurting his professional. What he should be broadcasting is breaking Hollywood of it's need to have a tie-in with any green lit project. Believe me, there is plenty of developed MOVIE BASED screenplays that are far more advanced than Watchmen that aren't getting the light of day because they are original works without a build-in audience like Watchmen. People can advance thought provoking cinema by renting, buying, attending more independent films. "Please support this film by seeing it a second time" "Please support this film by buying the first DVD" "Please support this film by buying the directors cut DVD" "Please support this film by buying the toys" "Please support this film by buying the t-shirts" "Please support this film by buying on-demand" "Please support this film by buying the happy meal" "Please support this film by buying the Art of Book" give me a break. This guy is a dumbass and hurting his professional. What he should be broadcasting is breaking Hollywood of it’s need to have a tie-in with any green lit project. Believe me, there is plenty of developed MOVIE BASED screenplays that are far more advanced than Watchmen that aren’t getting the light of day because they are original works without a build-in audience like Watchmen. People can advance thought provoking cinema by renting, buying, attending more independent films.

“Please support this film by seeing it a second time”
“Please support this film by buying the first DVD”
“Please support this film by buying the directors cut DVD”
“Please support this film by buying the toys”
“Please support this film by buying the t-shirts”
“Please support this film by buying on-demand”
“Please support this film by buying the happy meal”
“Please support this film by buying the Art of Book”

give me a break.

]]>