Comments on: Open Forum Friday: Is Napoleon Dynamite the Most Divisive Movie Ever Made? http://www.filmjunk.com/2008/11/28/open-forum-friday-is-napoleon-dynamite-the-most-divisive-movie-ever-made/ Blog And Podcast Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:43:11 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: matt http://www.filmjunk.com/2008/11/28/open-forum-friday-is-napoleon-dynamite-the-most-divisive-movie-ever-made/comment-page-1/#comment-500266 matt Tue, 02 Dec 2008 01:01:43 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=13164#comment-500266 In my experience, I've found that people's dislike for these movies usually aren't entirely due to the movie itself, but rather the hype surrounding. Movies tend to lose there appeal when you've already heard every punch line and catch phrase a hundred times before you have even seen the movie. This is especially true for movies like Napoleon Dynamite. Ace Venture Pet Detective / Austin Powers come to mind. I think late comers would be more hesitant to choose a movie on "the Netflix" after they've heard some dude/fem make an ass of him/her self reenacting a scene from a movie. Maybe the bigger the name "of a decent flick" the more polarized opinions get. I say that Netflix and blockbuster incorporate a "wild card" to their algorithm... just recommend the wild card movies regardless. Million $ idea right there. I win. In my experience, I’ve found that people’s dislike for these movies usually aren’t entirely due to the movie itself, but rather the hype surrounding. Movies tend to lose there appeal when you’ve already heard every punch line and catch phrase a hundred times before you have even seen the movie. This is especially true for movies like Napoleon Dynamite. Ace Venture Pet Detective / Austin Powers come to mind. I think late comers would be more hesitant to choose a movie on “the Netflix” after they’ve heard some dude/fem make an ass of him/her self reenacting a scene from a movie. Maybe the bigger the name “of a decent flick” the more polarized opinions get. I say that Netflix and blockbuster incorporate a “wild card” to their algorithm… just recommend the wild card movies regardless. Million $ idea right there. I win.

]]> By: Reed Farrington http://www.filmjunk.com/2008/11/28/open-forum-friday-is-napoleon-dynamite-the-most-divisive-movie-ever-made/comment-page-1/#comment-500250 Reed Farrington Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:15:09 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=13164#comment-500250 "I also like the Gerry suggestion. I know people who loved it and hated it. I saw it two weeks ago and I’m still not sure what I thought." - Ashley Ha. Netflix should have an option where they can decide whether or not you liked a film. :-) I'm halfway through "Gerry." I'm watching it 5 minutes at a time each month, because I get bored of watching people walking after 5 minutes. I haven't seen Napoleon Dynamite, but I'm guessing I'll hate it. I hate reality shows. I hate the character Borat. I hate Kenny vs. Spenny. I hate shows where people do stupid things to hurt themselves. I liked Freaks and Geeks. I wonder if I've specified enough input variables for the Netflix algorithm to come up with an answer for me. “I also like the Gerry suggestion. I know people who loved it and hated it. I saw it two weeks ago and I’m still not sure what I thought.” – Ashley

Ha. Netflix should have an option where they can decide whether or not you liked a film. :-)

I’m halfway through “Gerry.” I’m watching it 5 minutes at a time each month, because I get bored of watching people walking after 5 minutes.

I haven’t seen Napoleon Dynamite, but I’m guessing I’ll hate it. I hate reality shows. I hate the character Borat. I hate Kenny vs. Spenny. I hate shows where people do stupid things to hurt themselves. I liked Freaks and Geeks. I wonder if I’ve specified enough input variables for the Netflix algorithm to come up with an answer for me.

]]> By: rus http://www.filmjunk.com/2008/11/28/open-forum-friday-is-napoleon-dynamite-the-most-divisive-movie-ever-made/comment-page-1/#comment-500171 rus Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:56:56 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=13164#comment-500171 O.k. I’m actually going to spend some time thinking about this in the context of all the films Sean listed because I love this shit. Napoleon Dynamite is an interesting example because at a base level it achieves what all good film/TV needs to reach the level of a remembered, loved work; it’s characters are fully formed and realized, and it introduces us to an environment that adds to the story. Past that, I believe the film’s popularity is in the way it successfully captures that nerdy, bumbling time in every person’s life were we struggled with identity (personal, interpersonal and within the family) and the freedom of naïve youthful ideals. There is an undercurrent of “hipster chic” were you might want to disregard Napoleon form the beginning only to realize he is the most interesting character in the film and impossible not to watch. I feel many of the people that “really hate” the film might have some personal hang-ups with always needing to judge and feel superior to things outside their comfort zone. But beyond all of that, the character of Napoleon is probably the most successful adolescent character ever put on celluloid. He is fully within the rules established for him by the film’s wonderful beginning. Characters like Ferris Bueller and Juno are good but by either their actions (Ferris) or snapping dialogue (Ferris and Juno) we don’t honestly buy that they are fully real. Napoleon feels real, and due to really getting into the role the filmmakers actually can take it to places of complete unreal hilarity. In a way Napoleons’ draw is very similar to Seinfeld because it takes the mundane issues of life and makes eloquent studies of them. Life is not about scaling mountains, it’s about dealing with feeling inadequate as you enter a party, school, a restaurant. That is something everyone has had to deal with on different degrees therefore it’s universally entertaining. That being said, Napoleon Dynamite is basically “a few days in the life” type film and many of the people that dislike it well never understand why people will watch it over and over. In this way, it is very similar to The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou. This is a film I like when I really should not. It’s childish in concept and characters, it feels like a rehash of similar Anderson themes at a more exotic local, but its singular vision and simple layout makes me like it none-the-less. (I dig art direction so this film would always have my heart) It is one of those personally crafted films that I have to watch a few minutes of whenever it comes on. So it is similar to Napoleon Dynamite in the way its characters, setting and style make it uniquely singular, therefore, rememberable. Furthermore, each film is a simple story that without the colorful visions, locals and characters would be impossible to watch. I feel these two opposing forces is what makes the love/ hate debate with these films. I can see why people think “I Heart Huckabees” is preachy. I just wonder if they are associating the director with the film too much. I liked the film and was amazed how it could combine philosophical debate into a story without completely turning off or losing the audience. So of the scenes, like the dinner scene, are awesome. I’m also always reminded of one of Steve Martin’s lines whenever I watch the film, “I took just enough of philosophy in college to screw me up for the rest of my life.” Kill Bill is a film that is self perpetuating. What I mean is the “mash-up, homage to” aspect gives the film layers that make it more than the basic “revenge film “ but a visual museum show. I have a limited knowledge of all the types and characteristics of the different martial arts films depicted, but the way Tarantino allowed those ideals to shape the film is probably the only reason I watch Kill Bill today. The interesting parts of the films are in the layered references, transitions and styles dictated by the homage Tarantino wanted to express. If you don’t buy into that idea from the beginning I can see how it is a distracting mess. So what is the reason these films are so debated? I think it because each is a singular vision of a simple story and if you don’t buy the vision, the simple story is not going to keep you. Later, Rus O.k. I’m actually going to spend some time thinking about this in the context of all the films Sean listed because I love this shit.
Napoleon Dynamite is an interesting example because at a base level it achieves what all good film/TV needs to reach the level of a remembered, loved work; it’s characters are fully formed and realized, and it introduces us to an environment that adds to the story. Past that, I believe the film’s popularity is in the way it successfully captures that nerdy, bumbling time in every person’s life were we struggled with identity (personal, interpersonal and within the family) and the freedom of naïve youthful ideals. There is an undercurrent of “hipster chic” were you might want to disregard Napoleon form the beginning only to realize he is the most interesting character in the film and impossible not to watch. I feel many of the people that “really hate” the film might have some personal hang-ups with always needing to judge and feel superior to things outside their comfort zone.
But beyond all of that, the character of Napoleon is probably the most successful adolescent character ever put on celluloid. He is fully within the rules established for him by the film’s wonderful beginning. Characters like Ferris Bueller and Juno are good but by either their actions (Ferris) or snapping dialogue (Ferris and Juno) we don’t honestly buy that they are fully real. Napoleon feels real, and due to really getting into the role the filmmakers actually can take it to places of complete unreal hilarity.
In a way Napoleons’ draw is very similar to Seinfeld because it takes the mundane issues of life and makes eloquent studies of them. Life is not about scaling mountains, it’s about dealing with feeling inadequate as you enter a party, school, a restaurant. That is something everyone has had to deal with on different degrees therefore it’s universally entertaining.
That being said, Napoleon Dynamite is basically “a few days in the life” type film and many of the people that dislike it well never understand why people will watch it over and over. In this way, it is very similar to The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou. This is a film I like when I really should not. It’s childish in concept and characters, it feels like a rehash of similar Anderson themes at a more exotic local, but its singular vision and simple layout makes me like it none-the-less. (I dig art direction so this film would always have my heart) It is one of those personally crafted films that I have to watch a few minutes of whenever it comes on. So it is similar to Napoleon Dynamite in the way its characters, setting and style make it uniquely singular, therefore, rememberable. Furthermore, each film is a simple story that without the colorful visions, locals and characters would be impossible to watch. I feel these two opposing forces is what makes the love/ hate debate with these films.
I can see why people think “I Heart Huckabees” is preachy. I just wonder if they are associating the director with the film too much. I liked the film and was amazed how it could combine philosophical debate into a story without completely turning off or losing the audience. So of the scenes, like the dinner scene, are awesome. I’m also always reminded of one of Steve Martin’s lines whenever I watch the film, “I took just enough of philosophy in college to screw me up for the rest of my life.”
Kill Bill is a film that is self perpetuating. What I mean is the “mash-up, homage to” aspect gives the film layers that make it more than the basic “revenge film “ but a visual museum show. I have a limited knowledge of all the types and characteristics of the different martial arts films depicted, but the way Tarantino allowed those ideals to shape the film is probably the only reason I watch Kill Bill today. The interesting parts of the films are in the layered references, transitions and styles dictated by the homage Tarantino wanted to express. If you don’t buy into that idea from the beginning I can see how it is a distracting mess.
So what is the reason these films are so debated? I think it because each is a singular vision of a simple story and if you don’t buy the vision, the simple story is not going to keep you.

Later,
Rus

]]> By: Joel http://www.filmjunk.com/2008/11/28/open-forum-friday-is-napoleon-dynamite-the-most-divisive-movie-ever-made/comment-page-1/#comment-499979 Joel Mon, 01 Dec 2008 07:07:14 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=13164#comment-499979 @Ryan M :: I don't think I'd put it so strongly that people are lying to themselves about Napoleon Dynamite, but yeah, I do it with certain movies and music too. @Ryan M :: I don’t think I’d put it so strongly that people are lying to themselves about Napoleon Dynamite, but yeah, I do it with certain movies and music too.

]]> By: Ashley http://www.filmjunk.com/2008/11/28/open-forum-friday-is-napoleon-dynamite-the-most-divisive-movie-ever-made/comment-page-1/#comment-499962 Ashley Mon, 01 Dec 2008 06:00:19 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=13164#comment-499962 Crash, definitely. I friggin hated that movie. I also like the Gerry suggestion. I know people who loved it and hated it. I saw it two weeks ago and I'm still not sure what I thought. How about There Will Be Blood? Crash, definitely. I friggin hated that movie.

I also like the Gerry suggestion. I know people who loved it and hated it. I saw it two weeks ago and I’m still not sure what I thought.

How about There Will Be Blood?

]]> By: Swarez http://www.filmjunk.com/2008/11/28/open-forum-friday-is-napoleon-dynamite-the-most-divisive-movie-ever-made/comment-page-1/#comment-499719 Swarez Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:35:34 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=13164#comment-499719 The Ali G movie was weak. I have not gotten myself to watch Borat again since I saw it in the cinema. I have a hard time watching these types of shows where people are put on the spot and make asses of themselves. I think they are hilarious but I feel so uncomfortable watching that stuff. The Ali G movie was weak.
I have not gotten myself to watch Borat again since I saw it in the cinema. I have a hard time watching these types of shows where people are put on the spot and make asses of themselves. I think they are hilarious but I feel so uncomfortable watching that stuff.

]]> By: joe http://www.filmjunk.com/2008/11/28/open-forum-friday-is-napoleon-dynamite-the-most-divisive-movie-ever-made/comment-page-1/#comment-499616 joe Sun, 30 Nov 2008 06:32:07 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=13164#comment-499616 What about Borat? For some reason people I thought would hate it ended up liking it. And honestly after loving the Ali G Show on HBO, I didn't care for the movie that much myself. I mean it was OK. What about Borat? For some reason people I thought would hate it ended up liking it. And honestly after loving the Ali G Show on HBO, I didn’t care for the movie that much myself. I mean it was OK.

]]> By: Neil M http://www.filmjunk.com/2008/11/28/open-forum-friday-is-napoleon-dynamite-the-most-divisive-movie-ever-made/comment-page-1/#comment-499526 Neil M Sun, 30 Nov 2008 00:48:45 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=13164#comment-499526 After watching Kill Bill Vol.2, I didn't feel that Vol.1 was inferior at all. I love both films for different reasons, but I was blown away when I saw Vol.1. I didn't get that sense of awe with Vol.2. Sorry, I really have nothing to add to the debate. I just wanted to get that in there because I just happened to have re-watched both. After watching Kill Bill Vol.2, I didn’t feel that Vol.1 was inferior at all. I love both films for different reasons, but I was blown away when I saw Vol.1. I didn’t get that sense of awe with Vol.2. Sorry, I really have nothing to add to the debate. I just wanted to get that in there because I just happened to have re-watched both.

]]> By: James http://www.filmjunk.com/2008/11/28/open-forum-friday-is-napoleon-dynamite-the-most-divisive-movie-ever-made/comment-page-1/#comment-499493 James Sat, 29 Nov 2008 23:15:35 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=13164#comment-499493 The ones that seem to be divisive in my group of friends are O BROTHER, WHERE ART THOU?, MOULIN ROUGE, DANCER IN THE DARK and STRANGER THAN FICTION. I like NAPOLEAN DYNAMITE, but I guess I could see why others hate it. THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT is another. I love it, but I know people who haven't been able to sit through it and it's only eighty minutes long. I love KILL BILL V.1 and 2, but I always watch them together because it's one movie, really. Quentin Tarantino's film are divisive, and so are Tim Burton's. I know someone who had that all of Tarantino's and Burton's films are the same. I don't think that's true. ED WOOD is nothing like BIG FISH. Which is nothing like SWEENEY TODD. Which is nothing like PEE WEE'S BIG ADVENTURE. Which is nothing like SLEEPY HOLLOW. Which is nothing like BEETLEJUICE. Which is nothing like PLANET OF THE APES. Okay, I think I've made my point. The ones that seem to be divisive in my group of friends are O BROTHER, WHERE ART THOU?, MOULIN ROUGE, DANCER IN THE DARK and STRANGER THAN FICTION. I like NAPOLEAN DYNAMITE, but I guess I could see why others hate it. THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT is another. I love it, but I know people who haven’t been able to sit through it and it’s only eighty minutes long. I love KILL BILL V.1 and 2, but I always watch them together because it’s one movie, really. Quentin Tarantino’s film are divisive, and so are Tim Burton’s. I know someone who had that all of Tarantino’s and Burton’s films are the same. I don’t think that’s true. ED WOOD is nothing like BIG FISH. Which is nothing like SWEENEY TODD. Which is nothing like PEE WEE’S BIG ADVENTURE. Which is nothing like SLEEPY HOLLOW. Which is nothing like BEETLEJUICE. Which is nothing like PLANET OF THE APES. Okay, I think I’ve made my point.

]]> By: Ryan M. http://www.filmjunk.com/2008/11/28/open-forum-friday-is-napoleon-dynamite-the-most-divisive-movie-ever-made/comment-page-1/#comment-499434 Ryan M. Sat, 29 Nov 2008 20:34:43 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=13164#comment-499434 "I think the haters are too cool to admit it’s at least a pretty funny movie, and the lovers are too ga-ga to admit it’s just a hip piece of fluff." So fucking true. I hate people who lie to themselves...especially when it comes to artistic taste. "People are divisive about “Kill Bill Vol. 1″? I find that weird for some reason." I understand the division...for two reasons: 1. Kill Bill Vol. 2 has all of the substance. Once you see it Vol. 1 feels inferior and less watchable. It should be that way...movies should actually always have sequels that are better than the first like video games do but of course this is a rarity because sequels are usually made for easy ching and nothing else. 2. Max (a friend with movie taste closer to me than any human I've ever met) and myself are die-hard kung-fu fans. Between each other own about 300 HK DVDs. We both love Tarantino and so of course we were superpumped about seeing Kill Bill. I loved it...Max felt like it was making fun of kung-fu in some irreverent way and it wasn't an homage. I was all like: "How could someone want to make fun of kung-fu when it's impossible for someone to have written and directed Kill Bill w/o loving kung-fu (considering the fact that if you're a head like me you saw the multitude of references to classic golden age kung-fu)?" Max had no answer. "“Crash (2005)” is the most divisive movie ever" It really is...and I feel like that has something to do with the heavy-handedness of the race issue and the fact that it won an Oscar. I'm not even gay and I felt like Brokeback Mountain was definitely more deserving of that award. As for the Napoleon Dynamite: Some people were bombarded w/ hype before they got a chance to see it...thus nothing could live up to that kind of expectation of greatness. Also, many people absolutely HATE anything that can be perceived as hipsterism and they can't see through their blind rage. I thought it was funny...not nearly as good now but it's still very watchable. “I think the haters are too cool to admit it’s at least a pretty funny movie, and the lovers are too ga-ga to admit it’s just a hip piece of fluff.”

So fucking true. I hate people who lie to themselves…especially when it comes to artistic taste.

“People are divisive about “Kill Bill Vol. 1″? I find that weird for some reason.”

I understand the division…for two reasons:

1. Kill Bill Vol. 2 has all of the substance. Once you see it Vol. 1 feels inferior and less watchable. It should be that way…movies should actually always have sequels that are better than the first like video games do but of course this is a rarity because sequels are usually made for easy ching and nothing else.

2. Max (a friend with movie taste closer to me than any human I’ve ever met) and myself are die-hard kung-fu fans. Between each other own about 300 HK DVDs. We both love Tarantino and so of course we were superpumped about seeing Kill Bill. I loved it…Max felt like it was making fun of kung-fu in some irreverent way and it wasn’t an homage. I was all like: “How could someone want to make fun of kung-fu when it’s impossible for someone to have written and directed Kill Bill w/o loving kung-fu (considering the fact that if you’re a head like me you saw the multitude of references to classic golden age kung-fu)?” Max had no answer.

““Crash (2005)” is the most divisive movie ever”

It really is…and I feel like that has something to do with the heavy-handedness of the race issue and the fact that it won an Oscar. I’m not even gay and I felt like Brokeback Mountain was definitely more deserving of that award.

As for the Napoleon Dynamite: Some people were bombarded w/ hype before they got a chance to see it…thus nothing could live up to that kind of expectation of greatness. Also, many people absolutely HATE anything that can be perceived as hipsterism and they can’t see through their blind rage. I thought it was funny…not nearly as good now but it’s still very watchable.

]]> By: Goon http://www.filmjunk.com/2008/11/28/open-forum-friday-is-napoleon-dynamite-the-most-divisive-movie-ever-made/comment-page-1/#comment-499384 Goon Sat, 29 Nov 2008 18:04:34 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=13164#comment-499384 "I Hear Huckabees is a piece of shit that is trying too hard to be about some existential thought process and tries to fuck with our minds, making it seem like it’s deeper than it really is. It’s not. It’s one of the most pretentious films ever made." I have no idea why people think this way. The existentialism element is simply a vehicle to tell a strange story, and isn't trying to say a single thing. I don't find the movie even the slightest bit pretentious, in fact I think its making fun of it through some somewhat close-to-the-chest satire. I agree its now Lebowski, but Kurt is dead on when he simply personifies it as a screwball comedy. “I Hear Huckabees is a piece of shit that is trying too hard to be about some existential thought process and tries to fuck with our minds, making it seem like it’s deeper than it really is. It’s not. It’s one of the most pretentious films ever made.”

I have no idea why people think this way. The existentialism element is simply a vehicle to tell a strange story, and isn’t trying to say a single thing. I don’t find the movie even the slightest bit pretentious, in fact I think its making fun of it through some somewhat close-to-the-chest satire. I agree its now Lebowski, but Kurt is dead on when he simply personifies it as a screwball comedy.

]]> By: Goon http://www.filmjunk.com/2008/11/28/open-forum-friday-is-napoleon-dynamite-the-most-divisive-movie-ever-made/comment-page-1/#comment-499383 Goon Sat, 29 Nov 2008 18:01:58 +0000 http://www.filmjunk.com/?p=13164#comment-499383 Dogville Elephant Synechdoche New York Gerry Dogville
Elephant
Synechdoche New York
Gerry

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