Monday Morning Box Office Report – Apr. 21, 2008
A Jet Li/Jackie Chan team-up is what people wanted, and that’s what they got this weekend, as The Forbidden Kingdom fought its way to a $20 million opening weekend. Forgetting Sarah Marshall wasn’t far behind at #2, with $17.3 million. Al Pacino and 88 Minutes didn’t fare quite so well, earning just $6.8 mil, meanwhile Prom Night continued to do well in its second weekend, and Nim’s Island rounded out the Top 5. The big surprise is that the intelligent design documentary Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed managed to crack the top 10 in its opening weekend, an impressive feat for any documentary. Of course, it helps when there’s a lot of religious groups putting money behind it to release it in over 1000 theatres… why can’t the documentaries that really deserve that kind of support get it too?
1. The Forbidden Kingdom — $20.9M
2. Forgetting Sarah Marshall — $17.3M
3. Prom Night — $9.1M
4. 88 Minutes — $6.8M
5. Nim’s Island — $5.65M
6. 21 — $5.5M
7. Street Kings — $4M
8. Horton Hears a Who! — $3.5M
9. Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed — $3.15M
10. Leatherheads — $3.02M
Comments (51)
It seems that you have something against Expelled, why?
Posted by Drew on April 21st, 2008Because I have something against intelligent design and this documentary is trying to legitimatize it, or at least make it seem all “counter-culture” rebellious and cool.
Posted by Sean on April 21st, 2008It’s good to see Sean actually have a sturdy opinion on something! I knew you had it in you.
Posted by Henrik on April 21st, 2008I thought it was just trying to show the oposite side of the issue, just because a documentary is trying to discuss an unpopular opinion dosen’t mean that it’s a waist of our time or that it dosent deserve to be released wide, thats like a mcdonads stock holder saying that super size me is a waist of time and dosen’t deserve to be released.
Posted by Drew on April 21st, 2008“hats like a mcdonads stock holder saying that super size me is a **waist** of time and dosen’t deserve to be released.”
Awesome Freudian slip!!
Posted by Kurt on April 21st, 2008There is no issue Drew. Intelligent Design is not an issue on any level. People like Ben Stein are trying to make it an issue, which is insulting.
Posted by Henrik on April 21st, 2008It’s the issue of evolution in general isn’t it? Darwinisim vs Creationisim?
Posted by Drew on April 21st, 2008and how exactly is it offensive henrick? just because your an atheist that means evrey other theory in the world must be wrong and deserves no thought.
Posted by Drew on April 21st, 2008It’s not a theory. There is no scientific research backing it up.
Posted by Henrik on April 21st, 2008There was another intelligent design documentary that came out last year I think that seemed like it actually examined both sides of the issue. This doesn’t even seem like it’s explaining either side of the issue, it’s just flat out propaganda, playing the persecution card to make you feel like people who believe in intelligent design are being treated as second class citizens. Gimme a break.
I don’t really want this to turn into a huge debate on the subject and I think it’s fine for people to believe what they want, but don’t try to disguise religion as some pseudo-science that is on equal footing with the theory of evolution.
Henrik: I am disappointed in myself for losing my composure. Returning to emotionless robot mode now…
Posted by Sean on April 21st, 2008I’m hoping Bill Maher’s “Religulous” gets an even better showing!
Posted by joe on April 21st, 2008I don’t think the controversy comes just from the overall discussion of intelligent design vs. darwinism, but rather the fact that the film uses the Nazi’s and the holocaust as an example of darwinism.
Posted by Jay C. on April 21st, 2008what? where did you hear that?
Posted by Drew on April 21st, 2008“just because a documentary is trying to discuss an unpopular opinion”
evolution is fact. ID is opinion. thats the problem.
Posted by Goon on April 21st, 2008btw, ID was proven in court to be nothing but creationism in disguise. the main creationist group was proven to have just taken old creationist text and used a ‘find and replace’ to switch the names of ID and creationism.
– caught red handed
its especially funny since ‘creationist’ was misspelled at one point and it didnt get replaced
“the fact that the film uses the Nazi’s and the holocaust as an example of darwinism.”
Drew, you didnt hear this? Its been part of most reviews i’ve read and I heard that it was even brought up during the Movie Blog’s interview with Stein.
I can tell you for certain that as an atheist, this shit comes up all the time, that Hitler and Stalin were atheists and thus atheism is bad.
I mean, wow. For one Hitler affirmed his catholic faith throughout his entire life and including in Mein Kampf. he tried his best to get the church integrated to the Nazi party and had some success (although there were holdouts of course). Hitler was a corrupt christian to be sure, and to get by the “Jesus as Jew” thing he simply denied that point and claimed the Jews made it up. Hell, the Germans had “God with us” on their belts, and it took all of them to make the holocaust happen too.
As for Stalin, now he WAS an atheist, but more importantly, he was a communist, and for him crushing religion was only a matter of religion being an obstacle in the way of power. Communism itself is political dogma, almost a religion itself.
Point being, Stein is wrong for multiple reasons on that front. In addition its been proven that Stein’s documentary lied to people like Richard Dawkins about the interview, and even snipped up one of his interviews into a phony clip of Dawkins saying that aliens made humans. Another famous atheist, PZ Meyers, went to a screening and the director had him kicked out. Even though Meyers is in the movie.
Basically the people behind this have been bullying and lying, and funniest of all is they didnt really release it to critics and put out releases saying that required early viewers to only say nice things if anything at all. for a movie called “Expelled” its certainly ironic to find them putting limitations on others’ freedom of speech.
To conclude, Ben Stein can suck my cock, and no one should be shocked that Nixon’s former speechwriter lies so often and so poorly. The end.
Posted by Goon on April 21st, 2008Drew,
Ben Stein was on The Movie Blog uncut and talked about it, and it’s been brought up in several reviews. It’s in the movie.
Posted by Jay C. on April 21st, 2008Doesn’t Michael Moore try to pass personal opinion as fact in his “documentaries”?
Posted by Mike on April 21st, 2008I’m going to sound like an idiot when I say this but i havent actually seen the movie nor do i care to see it, i just believe in creationisim and i was trying to defend it. That is pretty crazy that Stein uses nazi’s and the holocaust as an example of the darwinisim, it sounds like he’s just trying to make darwinisim look like the enemy.
Posted by Drew on April 21st, 2008Goon, how exactly is evolution fact, scientists still havent proven it 100%
Posted by Drew on April 21st, 2008Evolution is a theory, it’s not fact per se. It’s on the same level as gravity. Whereas creationism is on the same level as unicorns, satyrs and mermaids.
Posted by Henrik on April 21st, 2008Goon…some christians don’t believe Jesus was a real jew, but rather somebody divine….and of course the first and BEST christian out there (high five!).
Posted by Baychuk on April 21st, 2008Wheres the scientific basis that unicorns don’t exist henrik? (just kidding)
Posted by Drew on April 21st, 2008“Goon, how exactly is evolution fact, scientists still havent proven it 100%”
a scientific theory is not the same as your theory on who will be in the next Batman movie. A scientific theory is based on testable evidence, which can be repeated.
Now keeping this in mind, evolution is both a fact and a theory. I will divert you to the late Stephen Jay Gould on this matter:
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/library/gould_fact-and-theory.html
Futhermore, from wikipedia’s article on “theory”
“In science, a theory is a mathematical or logical explanation, or a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise verified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists “theory” and “fact” do not necessarily stand in opposition.”
So NYAH to the “aha, its just a theory, you cant prove it!” people. you too Henrik, you should know better
– in actual science, theory and fact are pretty much interchangeable.
“Doesn’t Michael Moore try to pass personal opinion as fact in his “documentariesâ€?”
Thats a lame argument, considering Michael Moore uses facts, some of them right, some of them wrong, and some of them cherrypicked, and makes his argument around them. its like an op-ed, and in the case of a couple films passes as documentary because we play fast and loose with the terms these days. If we held every documentary to the same standards people want to hold Moore to, I think we’d find very few pass the mark.
Even stuff like “Spellbound” “Air Guitar Nation” and “Rock School” are going to end up with people upset in how they are portrayed, editing to heighten drama, etc. If “Sicko” isn’t a documentary, than neither is “King of Kong”.
Likewise, “Expelled” is also a documentary, in the sense that it documents Ben Stein’s attack on evolution and promotion of intelligent design. Many of the things it tries to present as fact are not true, however I’m not willing to throw every other documentary under the bus to shake my fist a couple more times at Stein.
“some christians don’t believe Jesus was a real jew, but rather somebody divine….and of course the first and BEST christian out there”
and some other christians believe Jesus traveled to india between 14 and 29 and studied under the Buddha, and even made a hit BBC documentary about it.
and then theres this:
http://www.sfsite.com/~silverag/lamb.html
and then theres the christians who believe the military guy should be sacrificed to the beasts outside as punishment for their sins (yes, I finally saw the Mist. It was good, I have complaints about the ending though, but not the same complaints as the common ones Ive heard)
Posted by Goon on April 21st, 2008oh, I almost forgot one of the most important points:
Evolution is a fact because it is observable, testable and happening right now, as well as evidenced in DNA and growing fossil records. The theory of evolution however is the application of the knowledge of evolution to explain our ancestry. The theory itself again goes back to being considered a fact simply because every new bit of knowldge cross referencign different scientific fields, everything from cosmology, biology, paleontology, botony, and on and on, end up strengthening each other. thats the face of a strong scientific theory.
ID on the other hand requires you overlook all that we’ve learned from these studies.
In the end its a methodology that builds and builds information into a stronger and stronger theory, vs. a methodology that has an idea and rearranges what we’ve known, selectively at that, to suit it.
That is why ID is a crock, right there.
I think a big problem though is a lot of people dont get what evolution actually is. I know so many people who think that evolution says your grandaddy was an ape, rather than trying to grasp what common ancestry is all about. This link can help, well, it can help people who want to be helped.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/0_0_0/evo_25
There are countless famous evolutionary scientists who remain christians. Personally I do believe evolution and religion are opposed, simply because to me in order fully accept one you have to compromise the other somewhere. But it happens, i guess most frequently with those who have more amorphous religious, less dogmatic beliefs. I care about what is true over a subjective view of what keeps us moral. I find science much more satisfying, and its quest to discover more isn’t limited by a 2000 year old book. Thats where I stand here.
Posted by Goon on April 21st, 2008Drew, if you’re gonna be a Creationist defender you’re going to have to get used to flinging Nazi accusations around. It’s pretty much typical of their MO. And if they’re not slandering Teachers, scientists and their fellow christians as Nazi’s they’re off doing something equally as reputable.
Posted by Rusty James on April 22nd, 2008Well, I know what a theory is. It’s not fact in the sense that most people think of facts. That’s why I compared it to gravity, to clear up what theory actually means. There aren’t many documentaries being made trying to disprove gravity.
Posted by Henrik on April 22nd, 2008Now I don’t want to offend anyone by saying this because i love this site and i love being a part of this little group and i have no problem with athiests at all but i think that the point Ben Stein was trying to make wih the hitler and stalin comparison is that athieism leads to a sort of anarchy because if theres no god and no eternal punishment then why the hell not kill all the jews.
Posted by Drew on April 22nd, 2008See now this is what a lot of people don’t seem to get about atheism. “You don’t believe in god? What stops you from murdering 50 people and robbing a bank?” Oh I don’t know… maybe because it’s wrong, and most people don’t enjoy inflicting pain on other human beings… not to mention the fact that you would end up in jail? There are plenty of motivations out there to treat other people well that have nothing to do with fear of eternal damnation.
Posted by Sean on April 22nd, 2008But some pepole don’t give a crap about moral ethics or societies value’s.
Posted by Drew on April 22nd, 2008You actually have a point, i apoligize.
Posted by Drew on April 22nd, 2008You are definitely right that some people don’t care… but would religion really stop them either? I doubt it.
If anything it’s kind of sad to think that the only reason people are nice to each other in this world is because they are scared of going to hell. I sure hope that’s not the case.
Posted by Sean on April 22nd, 2008Ultimately Drew, the biggest thing that makes religion something to dismiss, is that it removes focus from yourself and your fellow people, and places it on something that you have no way of knowing wether or not exists. This neglects your actual existence and it belittles your relationships in the life you know to be real.
Posted by Henrik on April 22nd, 2008I’m glad you apologized, Drew, because that was a pretty well… let me just take a stab at it too.
“i think that the point Ben Stein was trying to make wih the hitler and stalin comparison is that athieism leads to a sort of anarchy because if theres no god and no eternal punishment then why the hell not kill all the jews.”
If the only reason you act like a good person is to prevent eternal damnation, i sure hope you stay religious. You dont go kill all the jews because well, when you believe you only have one life a whole hell of a lot of us find life even more precious and fragile and good, and as well and a lot more sad when someone loses or wastes that life. religious people have their own feelings of why things are tragic or joyful, and atheists have their own too, and even then I dont pretend to speak for everyone. It is of my own benefit to be nice to other people, so others are nice to me. It is in my own interest not to murder or kill other people or anything like that. It’s simply not rational. Rational, critical thought for many of us lead us to disbelieve in religion, and the same rational critical thought shows us the benefit of acting well in society. Aside from the obvious rational benefits of not sitting in prison, theres the obvious rational benefits of feeling happy/in love by treating other people with respect.
From my perspective, religion is the only thing that can make good people do bad things. Hitler could have never acheived the holocaust without generation after generation of preceding European hatred of the Jews by christians, and by exploiting the at the time, corrupt, catholic faith of the german people. People who want to debate whether Hitler was a christian are welcome to do so, however all evidence from his own speeches and books at least indicates he wanted to put that across and use it.
Posted by Goon on April 22nd, 2008btw, i had to share this little gem of ‘christian love’
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg34/nkm1981/042108_obama_osama1.jpg
Posted by Goon on April 22nd, 2008I think it’s just the idea of hell that really freaks me out, can you imagine being thrown in a lake of fire and beingtortured for all eternity? And how do you know that youve even made the right choices in religions, what if you end up in muslim hell?
Posted by Drew on April 22nd, 2008Fear is a powerful tool Drew. You’re young, the best way to stop fearing things like hell, is to educate yourself. The more you know, the less inclined you are to believe anything insubstantial, no matter how delightful or how scary it may seem.
Posted by Henrik on April 22nd, 2008Well it’s kind of hard to do that when yougo to church evrey week and you hav one person telling you this and one person telling you that.
Posted by Drew on April 22nd, 2008It’s too late Drew… you’ve been converted! Haha seriously though, it’s good that you’re asking questions. It’s tough when you grow up in a family that’s religious to overcome that, but ultimately you’ll have to decide for yourself what makes the most sense to you.
Posted by Sean on April 22nd, 2008As long as you don’t give into fear, and keep a critical point of view when dealing with the information you’re given from ANY source, you’ll be alright.
Posted by Henrik on April 22nd, 2008As an atheist let me say that I don’t think theism is necessarily bad. I don’t subscribe to the R.Dawkins ideas about religion being “the root of all evil”. Most of the theists I’ve known have been smart, moral, fulfilled people. I’m not enough of a pessimist to believe that man’s pursuit of the spiritual can be pure folly. And nothing that produced a mythology as rich as the Bible can be all bad.
I would never try to persuade anyone away from their religion. But Drew, if you’re denying science because you don’t want to go to hell that’s not theology, that’s superstition. There must be a more positive way you can incorporate theology into your life.
I wish more atheists would follow the example of Carl Sagan and less Dawkins.
Posted by Rusty James on April 22nd, 2008It’s not so much theism that is the root of all evil, but rather stupidity. Some people are infuriated with stupidity, and thinks that people who keep people stupid with promises of trinkets and wondrous experiences are vermin.
Posted by Henrik on April 22nd, 2008thank you for the support guys, i really appreciate that. this is why i love this site, theres not one asshole to be seen.
Posted by Drew on April 22nd, 2008there is one thing that just dosen’t sit well with me about atheism though, don’t you guys think that this big universe has to of been created by some higher power, its just to big and complicated to be made by a big explosion of gas.
Posted by Drew on April 22nd, 2008“there is one thing that just dosen’t sit well with me about atheism though, don’t you guys think that this big universe has to of been created by some higher power, its just to big and complicated to be made by a big explosion of gas.”
Don’t you think you’re just answering a mystery with another mystery? That the answer is ‘magic man done it’?
You realize the jump from taking the world all the way back to its origin and a chicken/egg argument… to a talking snake and naked people in a garden? its a pretty big jump from a universal cosmos argument to Jesus dying for your sins then rising to heaven…
the world is marvelously complex, but for a god to exist, it would have to be even more complex. it raises the ‘then who created god?’ question. christians have allowed special pleading to say “well god has always been…” – i dont buy that. i mean, the possibility of a single loving creator is “possible” in the technical sense, but so is a creator that hates us, so is the idea of numerous alien beings, so is the idea of multiple gods, so is the idea that time has no beginning or end, that its all a big circle.
as for the explosion of gas, well its more complicated than that simple explanation as well, however i can say i’m not as heavily researched there as i am with evolution. However phrases like “Has to” and “Some higher power” – sorry, the idea that a single thing “had to” doesnt fly with me, and as for us specifically on earth, theres nothing irreducibly complex about us that can’t have be explained by evolution.
BTW, Rusty, Dawkins didnt like the Root of all Evil title, it was thrust upon him by the BBC, but he managed to fight enough to get the question mark in the title. it was thus called “root of all evil?” not “root of all evil”.
“I think it’s just the idea of hell that really freaks me out, can you imagine being thrown in a lake of fire and beingtortured for all eternity? And how do you know that youve even made the right choices in religions, what if you end up in muslim hell?”
You don’t know. But that fear which I also felt and questioned up to my teen years opened the door to questioning. If God can do anything, why wouldn’t it more clearly reveal itself and prevent people from going to hell? If prayer works, why doesn’t god heal amputees? Why would god feed Satan’s army with such drastic numbers? Why would god allow conditions such as in africa where people dont even have education or access to his word, where people suffer through life and then die and go to hell because too bad, they lived somewhere they couldnt accept christ? whereas on the other hand, we are rich and spoiled and fuck up everything and ask forgiveness on death beds because we conveniently grew up around religion and think we can fool god through loopholes? sounds real fair doesnt it?
sorry man, i see the god of the old testament as worse than hitler. have you ever really read deuteronomy? do you think parents should stone unruly children? the NT jesus and god are much calmer, but still very deadly and jealous… and very willing to apply infinite torture for finite crimes. if the god of the bible proved to me he existed, i’d be very afraid of hell, but i’d still believe, seriously, that he was unworthy of worship. Ultimately, even though many of them still follow the OT as part of their dogma, Jewish people tend to have a very undefined idea of hell. So maybe you should become a devout Jew and not worry about it
– im teasing.
Are you being raised in a religious home, do you have the same religion as your parents? have you ever explored other religions? what does it say about us that we carry on faiths of our parents? is that really faith or just tradition? what kind of spiritual exploration, what kind of deep spirituality can you have if you’re stuck on default?
In the end Drew, it comes down to this:
Is there a possibility that there is some higher power? sure, again, same as other possibilities are out there. but do I believe in any specific one of them? no. So in that sense I am an agnostic.
But at the same time I am an atheist. I am without theism, without a committed belief to any of those things. Agnosticism and atheism are not universally exclusive terms, they by definition overlap quite a bit. On the other hand theres Gnosticism and Theism, which again, overlap.
If you’re worrying about labels at all: Gnosticism deals with what you know, and theism deals with what you believe. A hardlined stubborn atheist may be a gnostic atheist (but even they’d say they have a different standard of “know”). A Christian who believes in Jesus but doesnt claim to kwow for sure would be an Agnostic Theist.
And then theres Deists, which applies to most of the founding fathers of the US, who beleive that there is a god but don’t believe strongly in any specific religion. Lots of terms and labels out there, and at the end of the day, that someone out there believes that their specific branch of Baptist is more holy than another branch of Baptist, frightens the living fuck out of me. People that divided along denominational lines are frankly, dangerous – thats where I fall in line with Dawkins.
As for the Sagan thing that was brought up, that is where I fall in line most of the time. But really, its a matter of who I’m talking to. If someones being friendly and just asking questions, I feel like a happy Sagan atheist. When someone is in my face preaching to me, I can turn on the Dawkins snark and have no problem with it whatsoever.
Posted by Goon on April 22nd, 2008Drew, I attempt to write a short and concise response to your very reasonable question but everytime I found myself in the middle of a Goon length manifesto.
Unfortunately there’s no atheist equivilant to “god did it” and any answer you get will probably be very long and only leave you with more questions. Where other religions have dogma atheism has questions. I think it’s something we’re proud of.
I’ve met a few Christians who claimed that Christianity was the only “world view” (its a term they use a lot) that could answer all of their questions about life. I talked to them a little bit and came away thinking they were extremely bad at asking questions.
Posted by Rusty James on April 22nd, 2008I like manifestos
Drew asks earnest questions, he’s a regular member of this community so I felt he deserved a proper honest answer.
Posted by Goon on April 22nd, 2008why thank you goon
Posted by Drew on April 22nd, 2008“Are you being raised in a religious home, do you have the same religion as your parents? have you ever explored other religions? what does it say about us that we carry on faiths of our parents? is that really faith or just tradition? what kind of spiritual exploration, what kind of deep spirituality can you have if you’re stuck on default?”
I am raised in a religious home and i do have the same faith as my parents but i actually am exploring other religions, it seems to me though that being christian or a atheist are the only places i’ll go and right now its leaning towards atheism. I think it’s only natural to carry on the faith of your parents in the beginning but as time goes on you have to look other places. sometimes its tough though because you are afraid of rejection from your christian family.
Posted by Drew on April 23rd, 2008“I think it’s only natural to carry on the faith of your parents in the beginning but as time goes on you have to look other places. sometimes its tough though because you are afraid of rejection from your christian family.”
I think this is one of the biggest issues. even i dont fight with my family over it because its just not worth it, i dont need them thinking they did something wrong and feeling guilty, and what they do with their religion doesnt affect my day to day life. im lucky though that the only truly religious zealots in my family live several provinces away, and already damned my family for being Anglican. to them we’re pretty much already atheists anyways
Posted by Goon on April 23rd, 2008…in other words, the good thing about becoming an atheist is that you dont have to decide on a snap. theres no altar to jump to and commit. if you’re not sure about anything, take your time, and surely dont jump out there and out yourself in front of people you dont want to alienate. a lot of people join religions on a dime without knowing one thing about them – you’ve seen the tv preachers, perhaps you’ve seen it yourself, people just showing up in hard times and falling over crying and getting ’saved’ without having read one word of the bible…
even though i’m an atheist, i actually encourage you to fully read the bible, including the OT. understanding it was probably one of the bigger steps to figuring out i didnt believe it and that it didnt make sense to me. if you’ve been under that label all your life, it would be wise to know what you’re rejecting if you’re going to reject it. if you ever did out yourself you would probably face opposition and argument from some, and you wouldnt want to be bludgeoned and embarrassed.
Theres a rare thing on TV in Austin, TX, this show called the Atheist Experience. – atheist-experience.com – they take calls from people on the air, and most of them are arguing christians who ask many of the same questions you asked here. All their shows are archives on mp3 or google video. the hosts are very smart and friendly, but will argue back with callers fiercely if they are harshly provoked (which happens sometimes).
Posted by Goon on April 23rd, 2008“Why would god allow conditions such as in africa where people dont even have education or access to his word, where people suffer through life and then die and go to hell because too bad, they lived somewhere they couldnt accept christ? whereas on the other hand, we are rich and spoiled and fuck up everything and ask forgiveness on death beds because we conveniently grew up around religion and think we can fool god through loopholes? sounds real fair doesnt it?”
I’m sorry to resurect this topic but i’ve been thinking about this all day and i just had to mention it. you say that people in africa have no access to the bible but that is exactly what missonaries spend there entire lives trying to change. and to think that there are people out there that are that commited to there savior makes me belive in god just a little bit more. so what do you have to say about missionaries?
Posted by Drew on May 18th, 2008P.S. I watched the show, thanks for the heads up.
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