Maybe that also explains your long-winded litany of hate against children in general and, in particular, the ones who “bullied” that “gifted child” way back when. Could it be that it was you who was the arrogant, unprincipled little punk who provoked it…hummm?

And Henrik: If you try to raise children in an evironment where there are no social standards, no codes of decency (like-gasp!-Christianity), respect for authority or responsible authority to BE respected, then wild animals is what you’ll get every time. Children are sacred, as I said, and if for no other reason than that they are the future. If you fail to nuture and guide them correctly, then you end up with a socialist nightmare such as Europe is fast becoming.

my sister thought similarly to Steve about children, and went to school to become a social worker/guidance counsellor type person… and oh man, has she ever come around fast. been in it two years and she’s realized she had to drop that attitude fast to actually continue to live. the shit she sees and hears, not just about their parents but also the kids themselves (she’s currently at what is basically a prison for kids) is amazing.

As for myself, there was good and bad, but mostly from a father who was hard on me. He went through a lot when he was growing up in Eastern Europe and probably expected the same of me, but he has to realize there were no wars involving nazis and commies in Canada.

As for bullying…kids have tried but I usually fought back or the other kids weren’t into it so I was left alone with that. My KID problem is that I had trouble fitting in fully. I was never in any clique, was a drifter, got along with many, but never fit it. Ah well. There must be a reason we’re being tested.

Another good saying about having kids, is that you really are raising strangers. So its another test to have to raise them right and be challenged by who they truly are. Its tough decision for sure. Plus they’re expensive.

If I have kids, I want to make sure I’m debt free and emotionally available to guide them through life the best I can, regardless how they turn out.

Sometimes it amazes me that some kids actually survive and create Microsoft.

in grade 5 there was a cadre of girls that developed early, and they knew it. and it became their hobby to send the ‘uglier’ boys that everyone made fun of ‘love letters’ with lipstick on them. they had somehow developed a sense of sarcasm early as well, heh. the hearts of everyone who received one of these letters, well, died. I was lucky enough not to get one but I think I was nervous every day during the month they were doing this. My best friend got one and I still remember it vividly, the wording of it as one of the cruelest things I’ve ever seen in my life by any standard.

whether it was the time everyone gathered in the playgound and watched one of the kids beat a birds nest full of injured birds to death with a bad, to the time they chased the Pakistani kid up the catwalk (you know, at Sheridan on Lake/Linwell) where the 7th graders and held him over the side of the bridge by his ankles, where he very nearly and could have easily had died had his laces not been so tightly tied…. the kids that bought the pair of boxing gloves and secretly organized a fight club in the woods… and i’m not even covering what was done daily to the fat kids. Hell even Craig, one of the most popular kids in our grade 5 class, was chased home by several others and had the shit beat out of him in his own backyard. all this in the lovely suburbs of the North End of St. Catharines.

and I’m just covering grade 3 – 6. if i include grade 7 and 8 i get to mention the kids that gangbanged the fattest girl in town (her name was Pam, she made the news at one point for running away with an 19 year old drug dealer or something for 3 days, because of the timing, they thought it was related to the Kristen French/Mahaffy/Terri Anderson shit). The did this and bragged, claiming it was done so they would lose their virginity first and that the rest of us were “faggots”.

Me? I got teased because I was part time at the gifted class across town, and I had some of my stuff stolen… certainly not great memories but in context I got off easy.

of all the fat kids I remember scarred for life by the other kids, Pat G stands out, who was chased up a tall jungle gym by people teasing and one threatening to kick his ass. he hung by his hands from the top but couldnt hold on, as he let go he kicked his feet too much and got his foot partially caught in the bars down the way. he fell awkward and we literally heard his back snap.

So yeah, I dont want to hear any of this bullshit of the innocence of children. And I’ve worked retail a number of years too, I’ve seen how horrible so many other kids can be. The toddlers that have knowingly tossed dangerous objects at me, the 4 year olds who only know the words “mommy” and “i want it” – to the way children that cant talk fiercely shriek when things they want are not given to them – the things that are bad about adults I believe are built into children genetically. greed, hate, etc – its a nature vs. nurture debate, and I’m not going to divide up what percent is what, but I do believe most of it is built in, and that children are anything but ’sacred’

anyone who themselves cant provide a laundry list of the crazy shit that happened at their elementary schools was never actually there.

I wouldn’t want to bring kids into our f***ed up society that we live in.

Children are amoral little beasts, unhinged selfishness and amazingly cruel to one another. Its like you’ve completely forgotten what childhood is actually like.

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