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	<title>Comments on: Class action suit against MGM DVD over &#8220;Widescreen fraud&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/</link>
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		<title>By: Goon</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/comment-page-1/#comment-2590</link>
		<dc:creator>Goon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://209.123.84.9/spacejunk/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/#comment-2590</guid>
		<description>I just compared the Bogus Journey VHS (full screen) to the DVD (widescreen)

THE ALLEGATIONS ARE TRUE!!!  The Widescreen version is a cut up fullscreen version!  You couldn&#039;t even have guessed, since to be honest, the cut up widescreen shots looked better than the fullscreen ones... the back of the DVD says &quot;theatrical release presentation&quot; on it...

HOWEVER:

did Bill and Ted exist widescreen, get cut up to be fullscreen, then cut up again for the DVD?

or... was it released widescreen, had parts ADDED to BECOME fullscreen (you know how movies are shot with more than the aspect ratio, then edited later) because of the VHS format, and is now returned to its original widescreen presentation? 

Like I said, the cut up version of Bill &amp; Ted I have  looks more correct than the full screen VHS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just compared the Bogus Journey VHS (full screen) to the DVD (widescreen)</p>
<p>THE ALLEGATIONS ARE TRUE!!!  The Widescreen version is a cut up fullscreen version!  You couldn&#8217;t even have guessed, since to be honest, the cut up widescreen shots looked better than the fullscreen ones&#8230; the back of the DVD says &#8220;theatrical release presentation&#8221; on it&#8230;</p>
<p>HOWEVER:</p>
<p>did Bill and Ted exist widescreen, get cut up to be fullscreen, then cut up again for the DVD?</p>
<p>or&#8230; was it released widescreen, had parts ADDED to BECOME fullscreen (you know how movies are shot with more than the aspect ratio, then edited later) because of the VHS format, and is now returned to its original widescreen presentation? </p>
<p>Like I said, the cut up version of Bill &#038; Ted I have  looks more correct than the full screen VHS.</p>
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		<title>By: Goon</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/comment-page-1/#comment-2591</link>
		<dc:creator>Goon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://209.123.84.9/spacejunk/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/#comment-2591</guid>
		<description>I am on the phone with MGM right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am on the phone with MGM right now.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/comment-page-1/#comment-2592</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://209.123.84.9/spacejunk/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/#comment-2592</guid>
		<description>You forgot to mention that people who bought these DVDs may be entitled to a DVD swap or refund of $7.10!!

&lt;a href=&quot;http://mgmdvdsettlement.com/&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;www.mgmdvdsettlement.com&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You forgot to mention that people who bought these DVDs may be entitled to a DVD swap or refund of $7.10!!</p>
<p><a href="http://mgmdvdsettlement.com/" target="_blank">http://www.mgmdvdsettlement.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Goon</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/comment-page-1/#comment-2593</link>
		<dc:creator>Goon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://209.123.84.9/spacejunk/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/#comment-2593</guid>
		<description>The representative I spoke to said while he can&#039;t comment on all DVDs as he doesn&#039;t know for certain, he says my theory is correct.  The VHS fullscreen versions these movies are being compared to were from a time when &#039;more&#039; would be added to adhere to the VHS &#039;full screen&#039; demanded format.. we had a good talk about how even when you see movies in the theatres the extra stuff is still there and its the projectionist that eliminates the other stuff. if they screw up like they did when the panda saw &quot;jackie brown&quot; you can see boom mics in the top of shots if they&#039;re there. we also talked about how you dont hear any filmmakers crying about their movie being cut up, and they&#039;d know more than anyone if their baby got messed around with.

I asked if that means that some new fullscreen dvds actually have &#039;more&#039; than widescreen ones, and he said maybe in some cases, but probably not. no guess why there.

bottom line: he says the people making these allegations are making comparisions to VHS copies, not the original theatrical presentation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The representative I spoke to said while he can&#8217;t comment on all DVDs as he doesn&#8217;t know for certain, he says my theory is correct.  The VHS fullscreen versions these movies are being compared to were from a time when &#8216;more&#8217; would be added to adhere to the VHS &#8216;full screen&#8217; demanded format.. we had a good talk about how even when you see movies in the theatres the extra stuff is still there and its the projectionist that eliminates the other stuff. if they screw up like they did when the panda saw &#8220;jackie brown&#8221; you can see boom mics in the top of shots if they&#8217;re there. we also talked about how you dont hear any filmmakers crying about their movie being cut up, and they&#8217;d know more than anyone if their baby got messed around with.</p>
<p>I asked if that means that some new fullscreen dvds actually have &#8216;more&#8217; than widescreen ones, and he said maybe in some cases, but probably not. no guess why there.</p>
<p>bottom line: he says the people making these allegations are making comparisions to VHS copies, not the original theatrical presentation.</p>
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		<title>By: Goon</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/comment-page-1/#comment-2594</link>
		<dc:creator>Goon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://209.123.84.9/spacejunk/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/#comment-2594</guid>
		<description>the FilmTechForums geeks also believe the VHS copies are showing the original negative, and that these &#039;chopped&#039; copies are the &quot;director&#039;s vision&quot; theatrical release, despite having less.


this reminds me of the Elephant DVD though... how the original version is full screen but theres a widescreen &#039;chopped&#039; version available too..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the FilmTechForums geeks also believe the VHS copies are showing the original negative, and that these &#8216;chopped&#8217; copies are the &#8220;director&#8217;s vision&#8221; theatrical release, despite having less.</p>
<p>this reminds me of the Elephant DVD though&#8230; how the original version is full screen but theres a widescreen &#8216;chopped&#8217; version available too..</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/comment-page-1/#comment-2595</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://209.123.84.9/spacejunk/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/#comment-2595</guid>
		<description>So MGM is saying that they haven&#039;t done anything wrong then? I&#039;m getting confused.

You said that they are using a &quot;pan &amp; scan&quot; version of the film with the top and bottom cut off. Does that mean that some of these widescreen releases actually still have the panning and scanning in them (ie. reframing the picture to fit everything in)?

I do know that in some cases widescreen DVDs coming out nowadays are showing more than they should be. I guess this is because they are using a different aspect ratio from the original theatrical release? I don&#039;t know why they would do this.

A good example is in Peewee&#039;s Big Adventure. There&#039;s a scene where Peewee is pulling a chain out of the basket on his bike and the gag is that it&#039;s an endless chain that would never actually fit in the basket. On the DVD you can see that the basket has a hole in the bottom and the chain is being pulled through from underneath.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So MGM is saying that they haven&#8217;t done anything wrong then? I&#8217;m getting confused.</p>
<p>You said that they are using a &#8220;pan &#038; scan&#8221; version of the film with the top and bottom cut off. Does that mean that some of these widescreen releases actually still have the panning and scanning in them (ie. reframing the picture to fit everything in)?</p>
<p>I do know that in some cases widescreen DVDs coming out nowadays are showing more than they should be. I guess this is because they are using a different aspect ratio from the original theatrical release? I don&#8217;t know why they would do this.</p>
<p>A good example is in Peewee&#8217;s Big Adventure. There&#8217;s a scene where Peewee is pulling a chain out of the basket on his bike and the gag is that it&#8217;s an endless chain that would never actually fit in the basket. On the DVD you can see that the basket has a hole in the bottom and the chain is being pulled through from underneath.</p>
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		<title>By: Nuno</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/comment-page-1/#comment-2596</link>
		<dc:creator>Nuno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://209.123.84.9/spacejunk/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/#comment-2596</guid>
		<description>When I watched Pee-Wee&#039;s Big Adventure on TV and VHS, you can see the extra chain being fed through under the basket but on my DVD they corrected this error.  Tim Burton even mentions in the audio commentary that they corrected the framing issue for the DVD cut.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I watched Pee-Wee&#8217;s Big Adventure on TV and VHS, you can see the extra chain being fed through under the basket but on my DVD they corrected this error.  Tim Burton even mentions in the audio commentary that they corrected the framing issue for the DVD cut.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/comment-page-1/#comment-2597</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://209.123.84.9/spacejunk/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/#comment-2597</guid>
		<description>Oh okay, for some reason I thought it was on the DVD but I must just remember him mentioning this in the commentary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh okay, for some reason I thought it was on the DVD but I must just remember him mentioning this in the commentary.</p>
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		<title>By: Goon</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/comment-page-1/#comment-2598</link>
		<dc:creator>Goon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://209.123.84.9/spacejunk/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/#comment-2598</guid>
		<description>sorry to confuse about &#039;pan and scan&#039;. I use this term, standard, and fullscreen intermittently when I shouldnt.

the movie has not been &#039;double cropped&#039;. it wasnt wider, then cut to fullscreen or standardized, then cut again...

the MGM discs are standard versions (original negative) that have been cut for DVD back to their original theatrical presentations.  IN my example, the VHS copy of Bill and Ted actually is showing MORE than the director intended, adding above and below the original theatrical cut, though the width of the feature is the same...

....this is hard to explain, if I had a pen and paper it would be easier.

hows this
theatrical cut: 1.85:1 ratio feature
vhs feature: keeps original theatrical cut width, adds to top and bottom, or doubles the bottom, or doubles the top, filling up the frame aka &#039;formatting to fit the screen&#039; in a different way than we do today
the new dvds eliminate this extra stuff into the original 1.85:1 format, giving people the impression they lost something, even though the director never intended it to be there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sorry to confuse about &#8216;pan and scan&#8217;. I use this term, standard, and fullscreen intermittently when I shouldnt.</p>
<p>the movie has not been &#8216;double cropped&#8217;. it wasnt wider, then cut to fullscreen or standardized, then cut again&#8230;</p>
<p>the MGM discs are standard versions (original negative) that have been cut for DVD back to their original theatrical presentations.  IN my example, the VHS copy of Bill and Ted actually is showing MORE than the director intended, adding above and below the original theatrical cut, though the width of the feature is the same&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;.this is hard to explain, if I had a pen and paper it would be easier.</p>
<p>hows this<br />
theatrical cut: 1.85:1 ratio feature<br />
vhs feature: keeps original theatrical cut width, adds to top and bottom, or doubles the bottom, or doubles the top, filling up the frame aka &#8216;formatting to fit the screen&#8217; in a different way than we do today<br />
the new dvds eliminate this extra stuff into the original 1.85:1 format, giving people the impression they lost something, even though the director never intended it to be there.</p>
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		<title>By: Goon</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/comment-page-1/#comment-2599</link>
		<dc:creator>Goon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://209.123.84.9/spacejunk/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/#comment-2599</guid>
		<description>yeah, so by using the Pee Wee example, when they put stuff on VHS in the past they would sometimes add more than was in the theatrical cut, which is why you see the chain gag get ruined.

Now with new DVDs being released of older titles they are removing this stuff that has been put on VHS &#039;formatted to fit your screen&#039; editions that were never intended to be shown.  People unfortunately are noticing this extra stuff is missing and are thinking something has been taken from them that shouldn&#039;t have been, when its just the opposite.

Lesson is: sometimes &#039;formatted to fit your screen&#039; doesnt mean they cut stuff off the sides. Sometimes it means they added stuff to the top and bottom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yeah, so by using the Pee Wee example, when they put stuff on VHS in the past they would sometimes add more than was in the theatrical cut, which is why you see the chain gag get ruined.</p>
<p>Now with new DVDs being released of older titles they are removing this stuff that has been put on VHS &#8216;formatted to fit your screen&#8217; editions that were never intended to be shown.  People unfortunately are noticing this extra stuff is missing and are thinking something has been taken from them that shouldn&#8217;t have been, when its just the opposite.</p>
<p>Lesson is: sometimes &#8216;formatted to fit your screen&#8217; doesnt mean they cut stuff off the sides. Sometimes it means they added stuff to the top and bottom.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/comment-page-1/#comment-2600</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://209.123.84.9/spacejunk/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/#comment-2600</guid>
		<description>So basically Goon, through your research you&#039;ve found that there is no need to send them back.  That is, unless you have a bunch of titles on the list that you don&#039;t want anymore, and you could then net yourself some extra cash (probably more than you would get from selling them to a used CD/DVD store).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So basically Goon, through your research you&#8217;ve found that there is no need to send them back.  That is, unless you have a bunch of titles on the list that you don&#8217;t want anymore, and you could then net yourself some extra cash (probably more than you would get from selling them to a used CD/DVD store).</p>
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		<title>By: Goon</title>
		<link>http://www.filmjunk.com/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/comment-page-1/#comment-2601</link>
		<dc:creator>Goon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://209.123.84.9/spacejunk/2005/01/27/class-action-suit-against-mgm-dvd-over-widescreen-fraud/#comment-2601</guid>
		<description>yeah, I suppose if you really arent into your copy of &quot;Privates on Parade&quot; or you scratched up a vital copy of UHF this is an opportunity. Or if you&#039;re an idiot who wants a standard version with stuff that isnt supposed to be there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yeah, I suppose if you really arent into your copy of &#8220;Privates on Parade&#8221; or you scratched up a vital copy of UHF this is an opportunity. Or if you&#8217;re an idiot who wants a standard version with stuff that isnt supposed to be there.</p>
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